I'm a Freemason AMA

[FreemasonAMA]

I will not go into some details, but I will try to answer as many questions as I can.

I just read over 31weeks' link of the Initiation. It does not look like the whole ceremony to me, and details are different in ours (no prayer to God etc) but will accept that is how her DP's lodge do it if he has read it. There is a large section that is missing, in comparison to how we do it.

I would take it with a grain of salt, given the website it is written on. Bilderberg .org homepage looks like it's a single deranged internet conspiracy theorist in a tinfoil hat.

Thank you OP. DH was interested to hear.

You are welcome I'm sure your DH will find a way.

@HattieAndHerBoy Maybe your father was reading a text that mentioned Leonardo da Vinci's The Vitruvian Man where the centre of the circle is his navel, possibly in the Masonic context of striving for balance and perfection. It's the most plausible explanation I can think of just now.

Am I right that the conservative United etc one has most of the UK members of free masonry?

My grandfather died telling a joke at a dinner at a masonic lodge. It summed it all up for us and particularly his daughter in law my mother.... that it meant taking time away from home and family and putting yourself and others above your own domestic duties and needs and obligations, with lots of pointless dinners and time spent away from home when clothes have to be washed and children read to in bed etc. She was very scathing of it all and of course the sexism in most branches is the killer for many of us women.

Not really sure how OP can spell it out any clearer for people what the point of it is. People are being deliberately obtuse because, for some reason, they have a weird issue with the Freemasons.

Thank you. I have that impression, as well.

The esoteric nature of Freemasonry means the details are not announced to the world, and its allegories and symbols that make up most of its rituals are difficult to explain to people who have no knowledge or experience of them. This gap in knowledge is filled in many people by prejudices and conspiracies, which I suppose is sad but not surprising.

My grandfather was a very high up mason. Grandmaster of several lodges (all the ones in his city I think at the time)

I would love to find out more about his time there. Unsure why but I am so curious and it really interests me.

I have been told the grand lodge (the one in Holborn) records keeps for everything. Photos etc.

Reccon this is something I would be allowed to look at? Or is it still hush hush. Top secret.

My dad and uncles where all in the masons when younger. Apparently the done thing to kick start your career. But they didnt stick with it long. Said it was a little stuffy and formal for them. So each to their own.

It sounds like OP that this thread has re-affirmed your allegience to the freemasons which, after all the comments of some posters who do know something, is a bit sad. But not surprising either!

I do think it's a bit of an indoctrination actually. When I read Xenia's post that is how I saw it as a child and growing up. The Freemasons was far far too important for my father, to the detriment of my mother and family life.

I don't like the word 'esoteric'. It means exclusivity to me and secret knowledge passed on to a chosen few. Only the 'initiated' are party to what it's all about.

I'm rolling my eyes OP at your claims of only the 'initiated', 'intellectual' and 'esoteric' cubic stones people understanding what freemasonry is all about.

That is not what I said. At all.

A person can't be esoteric anyway. I don't think you understand what the word means.

My DF's side are all FM's and that is how they got their jobs... The 'brothers' very much cover their own backs... a member of my family commited a crime that should have received a custodial sentence...

I can't say that there is no corruption anywhere in Freemasonry and "they cover each other's backs" unfortunately happen everywhere, like among doctors. But I have never personally witnessed criminals escaping justice because they are Masons.

I think it’s a bit worrying that you’re so hellbent on defending something which is essentially nothing.

Whether you believe in god or not, at least churches have a purpose: to worship their gods.

This is for nothing. Unless of course you win a prize for being the person to use “esoteric” the most.

All this “you don’t understand because it’s esoteric “ is ridiculous.

The fact is that the Masons are and always have been a deeply sexist, nepotistic, old boys cult.

And just because they’ve thrown a bone at the females who wouldn’t pipe down, doesn’t mean it’s anytning to aspire to.

It’s nice you have a hobby. Might I suggest a book club next time you’re inclined to involve yourself in a fantasy world?

The fact that you’ve managed to convince posters here that it’s a harmless group that doesn’t really do much except give toys to underprivileged children is both hilarious and slightly worrisome, tbh.

You’ve already been brainwashed. They’ve no excuse!

I've always been in interested in the Freemasons, but I have a sense that there is something sinister about them, probably not devil worshippers but I think there is something weird going on there. Have you seen or heard anything that most people would be shocked or upset about? You don't have to say what specifically.

I could not be part of an organisation that still has the men only part of it... in this day and age I find it poor that organisations like this, that sideline women, still exist.

United Grand Lodge Of England is not a part of my organisation. There are aspects of it that I find too conservative and even regressive, such as their attitude towards women, handicapped people, and other races as well as their insistence on God. I still respect them for the work they do, on their own selves as well as for the good of their communities.

There are men-only lodges in mine, but there are also women-only and mixed ones. I don't find it a terrible thing.

OP I thank you for being so honest and also patient in your answers.

No problem. Thank you for appreciating it. I expected this AMA to be challenging and even hostile.

I suppose my view is tainted because freemasonry was such a huge part of my childhood, to the detriment of it, to be frank.

I'm sorry to hear it. Mine was influenced positively through Freemasons around me.

Many other organisations have changed because of womens equality, it's awful that Freemasonry hasn't.

It has. Only the most conservative branch has not. Unfortunately, that is what most people in the UK understand when they think of Freemasonry.

My understanding is that the number of Freemasons in the conservative branches of UK and US are much lower now than they were 50 years ago, whereas the liberal obediences around the world are steadily growing. It looks like the change will spread one way or another, even if the conservative branch does not revolutionise its views on women.

I also remember DF telling me that the only reason women were allowed 'in' was because during a ritual a woman was discovered hiding in a cupboard, witnessed the secret ritual therefore had to be initiated.

That's not quite how Le Droit Humain was started back in 1800s

Its the reason why they are so secretive that nobody on here seems to know a great deal about what actually goes on. They exist to further their own lives and careers at the expense of others. If people knew about how pervasive certainly they were in the past across organisations that hold power and influence, they would be shocked. Certainly in my DF's time in the 80s in the city, it was a pervasive issue that infected so many of the big financial institutions. I grew up listening to my DF regale us with deals lost due to FM and I had a great feeling of utter pride that he refused repeatedly to become one because every moral fibre of his being told him that he was going to make his own way in the world on his own merit not on who he knew. The reason why you have to be invited by someone to join and you can't just rock up, is because they scout for people who can be advantageous to themselves or someone else in their lodge. Someone who can add value, or whose business could add value. They look for people whose moral compass is sufficiently off centre that they will be prepared to go through the charades that is the ceremony in order to join a group that seeks only its own ends. It is repugnant on every level and I am quite frankly stunned by this thread. For every girl whose education they helped, there are countless other girls like me whose DF's were thwarted in their careers, or who get a raw deal in the courts of justice and or whose perpetrators of crimes against them get let off because of these men. If the OP has been able to persaude you that somehow, a female version of this set up is any more morally benign, I am sorry for you. Don't be hood winked mumsnetters.

Thanks for the thread OP. It's very interesting!

Pleasure

how would your fellow FMs feel about this thread? Would they think it's positive you are dispelling myths?

I would think so.

At the very least, I hope that I have been able to explain that what they know of as sexist, religious, conservative, "old boys network" Freemasonry is but one branch and that there is a more liberal one that has been around for a couple of centuries.

If anyone is genuinely interested and want to research Freemasonry, there is enough information on this thread to guide them away from disinformation such as 'links to Satanism' and 'lizard people'. I think that is an achievement in itself

the fact women aren’t included in major lodges

That is not true. I have explained several times now that Grand Orient, which is a major branch of Freemasonry ("major lodge" isn't a thing) and has been for centuries, accepts women as Freemasons and has women-only as well as mixed lodges.

I appreciate the answers to what I've said OP. I just wonder why the 'more liberal' parts of freemasonry (that it appears you're part of) really would not want to break away from the old boys conservative type of organisation.

Just out of interest, I've just been online and looked at the lodge where my father was. Picture upon picture upon picture of old white men all with the regalia on. No one diverse. ( Bit like Trump's administration!) Nothing has changed there then, they certainly haven't moved forward. Even my mother and fathers' wakes after their funerals were held at Lodges. One good thing, we didn't go short on vol-au-vents (obligatory for a funeral of my DPs era!)

Also, you say you're not allowed to discuss religion or politics during your meetings. How does that make sense given the history of freemasonry is so intertwined with the religion and politics of the so called "enlightenment" era?

jellymaker Fascinating post. And I agree with all you say and you are 100% correct. Because my father was one who 'sold out'. And it helped him enormously in business. It was a mutual appreciation society that he used to his own benefit.

Now, I'm not going to say there was a big charity element involved and that is a good thing, he became quite philanthropic, especially at the end of his life.

But to pretend that Freemasonry is not about networking is a joke

Typing mistake...

Now, I'm not going to say there was NOT a big charity element involved and that is a good thing, he became quite philanthropic, especially at the end of his life.

This thread is quite cathartic for me actually, not that that would be what the OP would have expected or wanted!

I have no objection to a bit of catharsis

Do you have DDs OP?

Yes, I do. I try to raise DD in the rational and scientific way that I was raised, free from dogmas.

If you have DDs I'm just not sure how you could explain away the organisation to which you belong?

My DDs have been part of a whatsapp convo with me today about their GD's links to freemasonry. They didn't know. To say they're shocked is an understatement. The fact he lived in a different era is the only reason they're not more shocked TBH, one said she thinks we ought to keep this quiet, the other said worse which I won't repeat on here! If I was part of this organisation they have a lot to say ....

Very interesting topic OP and I can see that some answers would be hard to understand without actually being a fm.

Yes, that is unfortunately the case.

It looks like you'd have to have a certain amount of disposable income to join if it's £200 a month to be a member?

We pay a small fraction of that.

A poster earlier mentioned a trap door what is that used for?

We don't have a trapdoor, but do that part of the ceremony in another way. I know how the lodge of 31weeks's DP use it but don't feel at liberty to explain such details, sorry.

Sorry if you have already been asked but what is the significance of the word free in the title please?

Back in the days of what we call Operative Freemasonry, builders of cathedrals for example were a rare group that was free to travel to different towns. Today's practice is Speculative Freemasonry. We no longer physically build buildings but we refer to building a global 'temple' of rational thought, tolerance, and enlightenment through education and knowledge, one 'stone' (person) at a time. "Free" in Freemasonry currently refers to freedom of thought and conscience.

Where were you educated? The rituals sound a lot like my university traditions and ceremonies.

Is this an example of Mn dp having hobbies that no seem to know or talk about?

I am also wondering if the OP is actually taking the craft very seriously if she prepared to come on here and answer questions about it, given that she will have had to have sworn an oath to never reveal anything about it to anyone that is uninitiated on pain of having her "throat cut, her tongue pulled out at the root and buried in the sand at low tide". I kid you not. Google it