I live in Saudi Arabia. AMA!

[Shmithecat]

I still hear so many daft claims about certain aspects of living in KSA. Happy to confirm or deny what you've been told!

I didn't think anyone supported repression of free speech,

Really? I thought you were doing your best to suppress anyone going to the KSA.

Girls and boys all dancing together, outside, in Riyadh, Dec 2018. put on a pretty good show!

@LimeKiwi

You and a couple of others aren't having a discussion. That would involve give and take.

I've been asking questions.

Yes, you have. The same ones over and over and over 😴

If being 'heavily pregnant' implies she's not somehow 'up to' posting on MN, then she's an adult and I'm sure can make her own sensible decisions for hers and her DCs safe future and healthy lives

I like the mention of Trump, and think that his installation in the white house has really shone a light in the darker places in the states. Although, even state is run within its own legislation, hence the wide diversity across the states.

They don't condone public stonings to death in the states, and don't have public support for shaming and patriarchy and they have freedom if speech. There are covert atrocities being exacted across the world, but we are not living them every day like the lifestyle of having to hide who you are and live behind compound walls.

It's hardly comparable is it.

Trump is trump and there is wide condemnation of him, and wide condemnation that is reasonable on this thread.

*every

OK. Another question then

Does it not make you reflect even a little? That you have chosen to move to a country that you seem to view its culture as a nuisance ( "those bloody calls to prayer" for one, your view, not mine) and that you get a pass to bare your shoulders or hang out in a bikini but that's OK as you're Western and they'll make allowances for you?
All other women have to hide away but that's OK?

The bloody prayer times shutting everything down

So you don't say I'm paraphrasing - here's your exact words

Why would you go somewhere you seem to have a contempt for their culture and way of life?

I have a question: how much money is "enough"? Mortgage-free depends very much on what sort of property you buy and where. So how much do you need to have in the bank before you say enough? Are you planning short/mid-term (enough to pay for private schools all the way to university) or long-term (enough that there'll be some left when you retire)?

Oh smother is your horse so high that you can’t recognise when something is posted (slightly) tongue is cheek?!

You can showcase one big public event yet it is in direct contrast to what you yourself said about the harm that someone gay risks in living their best genuine life under the regime you live under and try to promote as being all lovely and great life.

You do this by trying to pretend the rest doesn't exist or have to touch your life, but you live under it because you have to curb yours and your DCs behaviour for their safety.

Some are going to find that hard to swallow.

How can I possibly 'suppress' anyone going there? How extremist of you!

Yes, you have. The same ones over and over and over

Nope, you've mixed me up with someone else. I've only asked a few questions. I have agreed or commented with people who have asked the same question though and you don't seem to like that.

@LimeKiwi

Does it not make you reflect even a little? That you have chosen to move to a country that you seem to view its culture as a nuisance ( "those bloody calls to prayer" for one, your view, not mine) and that you get a pass to bare your shoulders or hang out in a bikini but that's OK as you're Western and they'll make allowances for you?
All other women have to hide away but that's OK?

Reflect on what? As I have made clear many times, I'm aware of what goes on in Saudi. I don't agree with most of it. But we're here and we're making it work for us. If we left, nothing would change. Do you think that by boycotting Saudi and banging ok about the regime that you're doing anything to improve the situation? Because you're not.

And there are plenty of private beach clubs along the Obhur coast that any women can go to and wear any bathing costume she wants. No just westerners.

@TheKitchenWitch

I have a question: how much money is "enough"? Mortgage-free depends very much on what sort of property you buy and where. So how much do you need to have in the bank before you say enough?

Nothing fancy, somewhere between 250k and 350k.

Are you planning short/mid-term (enough to pay for private schools all the way to university) or long-term (enough that there'll be some left when you retire)?

Both. Funds for our ds through to university, and some for us to retire on. DH is in his 50s now, I'm in my 40s, so whilst we have a few years left before retirement yet, add in the general costs of raising a child, and we want to put away as much as we can. We're nearly there. Maybe another 18mo/2y and we'll do final exit.

*I like to run, in shorts and short vest top, because, you know, hot exercising.

I like to listen to music on the beach and dance with my girlfriends out in the open I mean (not hidden, furtively, behind.compound doors). I have gay friendsthat I don't need it worry about being stoned to death.

I love that my dd's are free to express themselves, which is hard enough in any patriarchal society. They don't have to cover up, and can experiment with their ids which a psychologist will agree is a fundamental part of healthy psychological development.

That's not always easy here, but at least it's not completely shut down because 'shame', control, abuse oh and money.

I find it weird that supporting such regimes can be expected by any to not be met with bad feeling, including those supporting those who support it, by living there and promoting it as a great life.

I also think its extremely important for my girls to feel on a par with their peers, male and female. To not feel shame at their sexuality.

To hold intellectual conversations with men and women without having to be chaperones or in fear of stoning, because, you know, women can't be trusted to just shag any bloke she meets. However, she'll still be raped and blamed/shamed, as that rape will be her fault have no doubt.

We have arguments still raging about that here in the UK, but women won't be pursued and stined for being raped, or driven out of their homes, and ripped away from their DC.*

Was there a question here?

I find it weird that supporting such regimes can be expected by any to not be met with bad feeling, including those supporting those who support it, by living there and promoting it as a great life.

OP is not promoting it as a great life. She's writing about her own experiences and giving answers to questions that people ask.

Again, if you feel so keenly about this issue, please start your own thread. Something along the lines of, "AIBU to think that people who go to live in Saudi Arabia are morally bankrupt?"

*MoreCookiesPlease

I bloody like you.

Me too!

yep!

I personally feel that this thread shows Mumsnet as it is generally at the moment - sanctimonious. And I've been around for a long while.

@zonkin completely agree (I've been here a decade and it's got so much worse lately).

That's such a crap system for that Pakistani family. So is their whole life dependent on the dad keeping the same job for the rest of his life? Do they speak Arabic? Actually do you speak it? And do your Pakistani friends get treated badly because of how they look despite the fact they were born there? And would the little kids be likely to marry saudi women/men when they grow up?

@Windowsareforcheaters u ok hun? PM me 🙄

@bomanaise

That's such a crap system for that Pakistani family. So is their whole life dependent on the dad keeping the same job for the rest of his life?

No, he doesn't have to have the same job, but he has to be continually sponsored. If one employer won't transfer the sponsorship to the next, it gets cancelled and you HAVE to leave KSA and can't return until another sponsorship is in place, which can take months or weeks. The uncertainty is horrid.

Do they speak Arabic?

Yes, they did.

Actually do you speak it?

Very little

And do your Pakistani friends get treated badly because of how they look despite the fact they were born there?

Yes, Pakistanis aren't treated very well unless they're wealthy/in a top job.

And would the little kids be likely to marry saudi women/men when they grow up?

Highly unlikely. It's not the norm for Saudis to marry outside their nationality, but it does happen now and then, but usually only between wealthy families.

Hmm. I get that people have their own opinions about living and working in certain countries and should feel free to express them. I don’t get the need the badger the OP about it when she is clearly in possession of the facts and doesn’t share that view and is not about to.

Morning op, a question,

My hay fever has been bad for the last few days but I know if I were to visit family by the coast it would improve ( different air/ less pollen/ pollution etc). Have you found the change in climate and the extended period of warm weather has made and impact on your health/ skin. I just mean in general terms and i do hope this is not too nosy, please do say if you’d prefer not to answer.

@Orchidflower1

Morning op, a question,

Morning!

My hay fever has been bad for the last few days but I know if I were to visit family by the coast it would improve ( different air/ less pollen/ pollution etc). Have you found the change in climate and the extended period of warm weather has made and impact on your health/ skin. I just mean in general terms and i do hope this is not too nosy, please do say if you’d prefer not to answer.

I'm lucky that I don't suffer from any ailments in general, so haven't noticed a change in my health, but DH does use an inhaler, although a lot less since (months can go by) we've been here, even on sand storm days and his hayfever has disappeared entirely. Ds has a snotty nose from time to time, but I think that's standard for preschoolers the world over! Low humidity and general warmth tends to work well for us (although I don't sunbathe - ageing, skin cancer etc)
The danger to health here tbh is developing type 2 diabetes and being overweight because of the glorious foods (particularly sweets/pastries) and being quite sedentary. All health insurers now are obliged, at all cover levels, to pay for gastric bands!!!!!! And baby girls ear piercing, but that's another thread entirely .