I live in Saudi Arabia. AMA!

[Shmithecat]

I still hear so many daft claims about certain aspects of living in KSA. Happy to confirm or deny what you've been told!

LimeKiwi

You should have a look at the set up i the UK. One thing the last Labour government got right was that they changed the law so that a maid entering the UK with a family from Saudi (or other countries) could seek employment with a different family.

The coalition (I think) got rid of that. Do no matter how badly treated a maid is she cannot legally seek alternative work, she either sticks with the family or she leaves and becomes an illegal immigrant, unable to work legally and risking deportation.

@Yoozanaim

^"If you could only change one law what would it be?
The end of the sponsorship laws and the availability of permanent residency to those who were born in the KSA to expat parents. To give them more autonomy and control over their own future in the country."^

Really??? It's all about you, and expats, and hedgehogs and cats. And MONEY, obviously. No thoughts of changing the laws around LGBT issues, religious/political freedoms and freedom of speech?

Lots of thoughts about those things actually, but I was asked to change only 1 law. And it wasn't about me - I don't want to live here forever.. but I know people who's parents moved here from other countries 30 or more years ago, had their children here, the children are now adults with children of their own and know no other country other than KSA, but have no right to remain here unless they have a Saudi sponsor.

I appreciate all the efforts by Mousse et all in this thread, and hope people, if not the OP, will now consider taking a stand against such a regime. You live in a bubble. Lucky you.

🙄

Regarding the law picking.

This has been addressed at least twice through the thread. If irc when challenged before op said she was asked to pick ONE law but that didn’t mean others weren’t important. I’m sure if someone asked any poster to choose just ONE law to change you could think of at least five straight off and struggle to pick.

Sorry op x post- as mentioned earlier I’m not a fast typer!

If anyone is doubt about the credibility of OPs morals credentials, here it is....

If you could only change one law what would it be?
The end of the sponsorship laws and the availability of permanent residency to those who were born in the KSA to expat parents. To give them more autonomy and control over their own future in the country.

Very very shallow, low low ....

Of all the atrocities and gross reality of what's happening there,that

Matters the most.

You honestly couldn't make it up.

This post is pretty staggering- attacking someone for answering a question honestly and stating their morals are questionable, perhaps look at your own

@ivykaty44

I actually picked that law because of a Pakistani family I know here. They were born in Saudi to Pakistani parents, and they now have 2 young children, also both born here. But they will never have to right to stay here unless they have sponsorship. The father wanted to change jobs but the current employer wouldn't transfer his sponsorship, only end it, which meant that he would have to pack up and leave. The prospective employer didn't want to start a whole new sponsorship process. Which would've meant that my friend and his family would have to leave Saudi, to go back 'home' to Pakistan. A country they've never set foot in, have no family in and nowhere to go to. He was beside himself, it was awful. Thankfully the situation got sorted, but this is the same precarious position an awful lot of expats are in. Not me. If we had to leave tomorrow, it's fine. But it wasn't for them.

And from my original post on the matter- The end of the sponsorship laws and the availability of permanent residency to those who were born in the KSA to expat parents.

My son wasn't born here. So, not about me at all.

So fuck the rape victims, gay people and journalists being whipped, you don't know them personally. Until it happens to you or your family.

@Thewitcher

So fuck the rape victims, gay people and journalists being whipped, you don't know them personally. Until it happens to you or your family.

Er, no. I was only allowed to chose one law. I'd change many if I could. Someone needs there morning coffee..

their

@Halo84
Your posts smack of cultural imperialism. You wish to impose your very Western standards on other countries. Look at the percentage of Saudis who support their regime vs those that don't

Interesting, several posters have suggested I am pursuing a personal agenda. I have answered this once but I will say again The standards I am discussing are based on the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights published and agreed in 1948.

If the U.N. declaration of HR is cultural imperialism then so be it.

@SeaEagleFeather human rights = Don't get upset by rabid bullshit
From someone who claims to care about human rights that is a bit strange. This is the second time I have asked you - if there is anything rabid or personally insulting to the OP please quote and I will reply so we can discuss. If that rabid enough for you?

I actually think we all should be upset and focused on HR and not swimming pools and shiny things. Don't worry I'm going to work soon so you get back to chatting about the wildlife.

Do tell me what country, since 1948, has not breached the UN Declaration.

I actually think we all should be upset and focused on HR and not swimming pools and shiny things. Don't worry I'm going to work soon so you get back to chatting about the wildlife.

The thing is as you’ve said when you’ve wanted to make your (same) point on numerous occasions it’s and AMA. Consequently, I’d like to know a bit about the place the op lives and her perception. Similarly if someone posted an AMA on living in Bible Belt Utah, the jungle of Bolivia or outback Australia I’d ask questions about their day to day life because it will be far removed from mine and it’s interesting.

NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY ON THIS THREAD HAS SAID HUMAN RIGHTS ARE NOT IMPORTANT.

Our ability to ask questions that maybe intriguing to us does not detract from the HR issues. The problem is that when someone persists with the same argument that has been acknowledged by all ( including the op) it actually detracts from the argument when people just become focused on hammering home their message regardless.

 ——————

Op - I think my most recent question got lost in the melee of HR discussion.

What do you family at home feel about you living in Saudi? Obviously they miss you but are they concerned for your safety? Do they plan to visit once the visa situation is solved? Do you think they will have extended visits in the ‘winter’ like you do to the uk in the (even) hotter times?

@Orchidflower1 👏🏼 Hit the nail on the head

@Orchidflower1

Op - I think my most recent question got lost in the melee of HR discussion.

Not to worry. I have now initiated my own mental block function

What do you family at home feel about you living in Saudi? Obviously they miss you but are they concerned for your safety? Do they plan to visit once the visa situation is solved? Do you think they will have extended visits in the ‘winter’ like you do to the uk in the (even) hotter times?

The inlaws have concerns, but really unwarranted. My side don't so much. They know I'm quite sensible, I wouldn't put my family at risk.

My dad has actually just recently visited - immediate family (as long as you can provide the relevant documents to prove the link) can get visas, the process only takes a few days. He really enjoyed it. Not what he thought it would be at all - inside and outside the compound. We did some touristy things, some local stuff, flew to another city for a few days etc. It was lovely having him here and be definitely come back again whilst we are living here.

Very interesting thread. I have often wondered what would impel anyone to go to Saudi Arabia and had no idea that so many still choose to go there. It seems like such a twilight existence, when you strip away the money.

but I was asked to change only 1 law. And it wasn't about me - I don't want to live here forever..

It is about laws that affect you personally though, being you'd change the ones that hinder the expats coming for the money.

It seems like such a twilight existence, when you strip away the money
Money being the operative word - anything's OK if there's enough money it seems

@Halo84 not many - that's me answering your point.

Could you tell me if you think the U.N. declaration is cultural imperialism as that is what you accused me of?

What is the point of going on about Human Rights?

1. They are important.

1. Countries like the KSA work hard to project a normal happy image. They want to be seen as functioning state and to be accepted. They put an awful lot of effort into PR and projecting themselves as a great society while ignoring the dirty horrible underbelly.

The leaders of the regime hate it when their HR abuses are listed and publicised. All a bit bizarre when they execute people in public.

Threads like this normalise the KSA they make it into an interesting but not that different place. People read them and think wow that's a cool place to live and they aren't that different. They then ask why all the fuss about human rights when it's just a normal place to live?

By normalising this state it becomes acceptable. More people can't see what all the fuss is about. By accepting and cooperating we are in reality promoting and funding these human rights abuses. The more we accept the KSA as a normal, reasonable place the easier it is for them to get away with atrocities. By chatting about life's little pleasantries you are in fact enabling abuse.

You have a choice face up to the unpleasant, vile reality or compartmentalise the horror and accept the abuse.

I think the level of insults and anger hurled at those of us promoting human rights indicates how uncomfortable it is when the mirror of reality is held up to the face of people enabling abusers.

The abuse of posters has pretty much gone one way.

Threads like this normalise the KSA they make it into an interesting but not that different place. People read them and think wow that's a cool place to live and they aren't that different. They then ask why all the fuss about human rights when it's just a normal place to live?

Please don’t patronise people by assuming they are so naive as to this that this is how life is. Not everyone takes one opinion as assumes that is the truth( this works both ways FYI). I don’t take anything I read whether on line or in the paper as the full picture and I’m sure the majority of the posters/ lurkers and general peruses on here don’t.

By normalising this state it becomes acceptable. More people can't see what all the fuss is about. By accepting and cooperating we are in reality promoting and funding these human rights abuses. The more we accept the KSA as a normal, reasonable place the easier it is for them to get away with atrocities. By chatting about life's little pleasantries you are in fact enabling abuse.

We see what is going on, acknowledge it and may find other ways to address this and the hundreds of other world issues in our own way. For example just because I didn’t go and camp out in London last week or lay down on a bridge to be manhandled by a police officer doesn’t mean I don’t care about climate change.

I sincerely doubt that myself asking the Op about the functionality of her life whilst munching marmalade on toast is enabling the Saudi regime anymore than its feeding the drug trade in Venezuela or human trafficking from Libya.

               ::::;:;

Op I’m really glad your family are able to visit- I thought that with the visa restrictions you couldn’t have anyone visit so thanks for clarifying that.

No doubt in due course there’ll be someone along to say you wearing an Abaya when you’re shopping is cultural appropriation!

@Orchidflower1

For example just because I didn’t go and camp out in London last week or lay down on a bridge to be manhandled by a police officer doesn’t mean I don’t care about climate change

No, but you know about the issue, you might have had conversations about climate change based on the demonstrations. By inconveniencing people the protesters brought the issue to public attention. You chose to use climate change as an example perhaps because XR made a fuss, and 'went on about' climate change.

The more people talk about issues, the more attention they get, the more people are concerned enough to act.

I said earlier in the thread the symbol for Amnesty (sorry to mention them again I know some of you are bored with them) is a candle. The point of the candle is to shine into the darkness.

One of the themes from prisoners realised as a result of Amnesty action is they were glad they were not forgotten and dismissed. They mention how glad they were people had conversations and arguments about them while they felt forgotten in prison.

I'm sorry if you feel it is patronising to honour the thoughts of these people but I will not forget about, ignore or gloss over the fact that many Saudis are held in intolerable conditions. I will keep on mentioning it, it is the very least I can do.

I hope all the people picking at OP never use Apple products, shop at Primark or Top Shop, don’t eat meat from factory farms. If you do you are supporting hideous slave labour and shame on you.

@Hithere12

I did supply a bit exhaustive list of companies that trade here, to make sure that they knew, as a consumer, who they were giving money to that also support the regime here. But apparently, compromises can be made when it comes to their own shopping and lifestyle. 🙄

@Windowsareforcheaters WHY do you keep 'educating' us about amnesty international?! We know about the work amnesty international do. I'm studying in this area for crying out loud!!!

You are so arrogant to think we don't.

I will keep on mentioning it

lol, we noticed.

The bloody prayer times shutting everything down 5 times a day

Sorry, just seen this bit. I can't even.... That's like coming to the UK and whinging and complaining about church bells ringing on a Sunday for service and interrupting your lie in, and the chimes every hour disrupting your pretty little village life... It's part of the country and culture you decided you wanted to live in.