I am child-free by choice AMA

[MikeCheck12]

Ask away...

'When I think about the prospect of having children, I feel fear, dread and stress'

Same here. I know that my own mother felt stifled, suffocated and profoundly disappointed by motherhood. She once told me that if she had her time again, she would just spend her life pleasing herself. So I have always been terrified of turning into her, finding myself trapped in a situation that I was just screaming to get out of. I was so scared that I would feel that way about motherhood so I avoided it.

I also genuinely knew that the realities of motherhood were not for me. I worked with children for years so had zero illusions about what was involved. I know that I made the right choice but I guess a part of me might always think 'what if?'

I’m yet another child-free by choice person joining in.

In answer to the “you will change your mind” comments : Yes, they are annoying, even if well meaning. The underlying assumption that I haven’t thought through properly is patronising and tiresome.

My general response has been to smile sweetly and say “we’ll see”, while thinking “no chance”.

On one occasion, however, my patience with a relative who had made similar comments once too often snapped. I held out my hand and said “I bet you £10,000 that I don’t, and I’m absolutely serious” then eyeballed her and forced her to accept or decline the wager. Guess which option she chose .

She hasn’t mentioned it since. I wonder why?

Bonnie

My childhood was fine & my parents seem perfectly happy to have us, but apart from anything else I'm far too anti-social to live with anyone. I love spending time with friends & family but I also love having my home to myself. I couldn't bear anyone else being here full-time.

I'm child fee by choice (45), one of my friends who has two children said to me once that I may as well have a baby as I don't go out that much

I’m interested in what you say about finding it patronising if people say “You might change your mind”
I find it patronising because (a) it's very rarely said to men, (b) it's very rarely said to people who say they want children, (c) I'm fully aware of how autonomy works and the fact that people change their minds about all sorts of things every day, (d) I've known I don't want children for as long as I can physically remember so it feels like it's undermining me and my choices, (e) it just doesn't need comment as it's no-one else's fucking business and (f) it's often said with a head tilt and an undertone of sympathy

What do you think you would be like as a parent if you became a parent unexpectedly? (And termination/ adoption wasn't an option for some reason in this thought experiment)
Tough one. I think if I really wanted children, I'd be a good parent but I don't so I can't see how I could get past the resentment. While I'd try and hide it, I think it'd be extremely hard as i'd be living a life I never wanted and I suspect kids would pick up on that.

I know a child free by choice couple who basically treat their pets like babies. I find that quite odd. If I was going to choose someone to baby I would choose an actual baby. Can you shed any light?
My dog is most definitely my baby so I completely conform to the stereotype!! I don't think a dog and a baby are in any way comparable so it's not as simple as "wanting to baby" something and then choosing a kid or a dog. A dog is always a dog but a baby turns into a toddler, into a child, into a teenager and then an adult.
I'd much prefer a dog to a child... Dogs are cheaper; dogs don't constrain your life as much as children (i.e. they can be left in the house alone while you go into work or to work for a bit); dogs don't do poonamis very often; my dog sleeps for about 18 hours per day and isn't at all demanding; I don't have to read to my dog; I don't have to go and watch boring school plays or sports days; I don't have to worry about my dog getting bullied at school; I don't have to feel as guilty about the environmental impact of my dog as she's not as much of a pollutant as another human. As awful as it sounds too, my dog's life expectancy is 14 years - you're stuck with a human kid forever

Not a question but just to comment honestly, before I had a child, I used to believe that people who decided not to parent (I like that description too) must have had some dysfunctional background and that there was just something wrong there. (Although I'd never say that - how awful some of the comments some of you have received). Having had a child and experienced it, I see it as a completely rational and valid life choice not to do so, and believe that these people have seen having children more realistically than I ever did. This doesn't mean for a minute I wish I hadn't had kids, but it has in many ways been the hardest thing I have ever done and my life has changed immensely. There are many highs that I'd hate to miss out on personally, but I respect you all in making a sensible decision regarding the lifestyle you want. You meet many mums who will tell you about the constant undying love for their child and how much they love it all - it all feels a bit forced to me. I find it hard to believe there are many parents who find it this wonderful all the time and now find the need to profess that you do a bit dysfunctional
Thanks for this. I think you're absolutely right that us child-free by choice people are seen as being a bit weird and dysfunction. My MIL certainly thinks so

Do you have more sympathy than the average woman with men who become fathers against their will and then decide not to have any relationship with their child, or are involved but a poor parent?
Not at all. Why would I?

How would you view a potential boyfriend who chose to not see his kids by his ex, or who saw them but was a bad father to them? (as in he was selfish/ obviously disinterested in them, rather than beating them or something)
I'd think of the MN adage of listening/looking to what people tell you about themselves. I'd see this man as childish, irresponsible and misogynistic. Not someone I'd be interested in dating.

Revulsion I feel might be a denial thing /lack of confidence

it's exactly this sort of unthinking patronisation we mean.

Because we do not want what that person wants, we must be "in denial" or "lacking confidence"?

Why? Why can't people just accept that everyone likes and dislikes different things and that there are multiple ways to live fulfilled and happy lives, without reading some deep and meaningful conclusions that it must obviously be because we don't know their own minds.

I know a child free by choice couple who basically treat their pets like babies. I find that quite odd. If I was going to choose someone to baby I would choose an actual baby. Can you shed any light?

I have a dog, he is my life and I love him lots. But I cannot believe you think I should have a baby instead. I can only think whoever thinks that does not or has not ever through the implications of having a child like it's just something to do on a Sunday afternoon. A lot of people are blessed with healthy children but equally lots have to fight for help for additional needs or help for a spectrum of disabilities. A child is for 'your life' and depending on its needs may well mean you have to sacrifice your life to look after them. A dog is maybe maximum of 15ish years. I can go on holiday without him, I can pay for others to look after him. I don't have to worry about coming home to do homework, taking him to school, teaching him anything other than obedience. I didn't have to worry about multiple births, additional needs etc and how and if I could manage them because let's face it society tends to 'expect' the mother to do all of that even in this age. It is no where near the level of commitment and change to your life a child would need and I am flabbergasted that anyone would say well just have a baby instead if you want someone to 'baby'.

Why? Why can't people just accept that everyone likes and dislikes different things and that there are multiple ways to live fulfilled and happy lives, without reading some deep and meaningful conclusions that it must obviously be because we don't know their own minds.

Well exactly. It all comes across as rather insulting. As does the suggestion that we might want to read a book about a woman who always wanted to be a mother & was (presumably) devastated that she never got round to it.

My 15yo DD has frequently said she has zero interest in having children. We have younger dc at home, so she knows exactly the amount of effort and work required in raising babies, and wants nothing to do with it as an adult. I feel this is a completely valid life choice for her, and am horrified at the thought that other people will treat her as "less than" for this decision.

What advice would you give to a teenage girl who doesn't want children? What would you do differently in your late teens and 20s to cope with rude/intrusive people?

@AvtarRamKaur a friend of mine uses this approach to devastating effect. I long for the opportunity to unleash it myself (although being mid 40s means that window is getting smaller now...)

Rude person: You don't have children? Why not?
Cool and confident young woman with broad smile: I don't know, just lucky I guess

I think it's brilliant

What advice would you give to a teenage girl who doesn't want children?
Fabulous question! I love your really supportive attitude too!
My advice would be... she knows herself best and she should listen to, and trust, herself. Lots of people will tell her she's too young to have made this decision and that she might change her mind- don't listen to those people, she knows her own mind better than anyone on the planet.
For the future, I would also say have the conversation about children with any future partners early on. It doesn't need to be terribly serious ("we need to sit down and have a very frank discussion") but it's good if long-term partners know what she wants from her life.

What would you do differently in your late teens and 20s to cope with rude/intrusive people?
I wish I'd replied "what a horribly patronising thing to say" to every comment about changing my mind. So often I'd either shrug these off (and rage inside!) or else say "No I won't" and come across as a petulant child

Thanks, both of you. I will read this to her later!

My 15yo DD has frequently said she has zero interest in having children. We have younger dc at home, so she knows exactly the amount of effort and work required in raising babies, and wants nothing to do with it as an adult
I would also say, actually, that she should try and distance herself from people's assumptions that she's interested or knows about children/parenting if that's not what she sees as her future. My MIL is terrible for this- she'll always direct conversations about her grandchildren at me, rather than DP, assuming that because I own a vagina I must be interesting in and know about infant feeding, sleeping, education, development etc. It's not only hugely sexist but also undermines my choices to not know/be interested in this stuff.

Oh, I do have to bat that away from time to time already; people assume that she enjoys babysitting, for instance. I can't pay her enough to babysit....

Avatar, I'm 38 and I can identify with your 15 year old DD! My parents and siblings seem to think that I'm gagging to babysit my nephew and niece (7 and 4) . Mind you, they also seem to think that a spot of babysitting is just what I need to get that biological clock ticking. My sister frequently gives me the opportunity to babysit (note, not help out when they need childcare, this is often apropos of nothing) while nodding sagely and telling me it will be good for me.

Yeah, on reflection, scratch what I said up-thread. This is actually the rudest/most patronising thing I hear on a regular basis.

I am loving some of the questions on here! Things like, what do you think about cafes allowing children, do you resent paying taxes that contribute to schools etc

I am not child free by choice (really would like a child but sadly hasn't happened yet), but can't say I have ever given any thought to any of these things. I would be less surprised to hear about someone like myself being annoyed by the above due to the continual reminder of something you cannot have.

I guess if you really hated children it would be different too, but from what I can see, not wanting children is just not wanting children! It is a lifestyle choice just as much as parenthood and it doesn't make you a bad or good person.

I was contentedly child-free till the age of 40 when I had a child, so I have spent far more of my life childfree and not planning to have a child than I have as a parent, and still feel 'on the side' of the childfree. I had decades of all the usual patronising/insulting stuff about how much I would be missing out on, selfishness, did I want to be a lonely careerwoman zooming about in my flash car, and die alone eaten by my cats? etc etc.

I did not in fact 'change my mind' or 'see the light' -- having a child was a deeply weird, out of character thing for me to have done, and I was perfectly aware of that when we conceived. I am not someone for whom being a parent is a natural state of affairs. I adore my son, find parenthood far more interesting than it looks from the outside, and I have no regrets about the decision I made, but I am absolutely aware that I could have had an equally happy, differently interesting life had I not had him.

Interestingly, you would have thought that the people who bemoaned my selfish childfree state would have been delighted when I had a child and entered the fold of what they saw as 'normality'. But no, the comments moved onto baffled incomprehension that I had no plans to have more than one child. How selfish, lonely onlies, no really a family at all etc etc.

My conclusion is that a lot of people are terrified of difference, and that your decision to do something they consider unusual constitutes a threat to the status quo. Especially if it undermines their sense of 'Oh, everyone does X', and especially if your decision is perceived by them to make your life easier. It's psychologically easier for them if everyone has 2.4 children and does the same joky eyerolling about teething and tantrums and teenagers etc, because That's How Life is Supposed To Be.

They can cope with other people's infertility, because it makes them feel that parenthood is the desired state, but your decision not to become a parent reminds them that parenthood, in the first world with access to contraception and abortion, is not compulsory, and that sometimes the alternative looks awfully attractive, hence the need to dismiss it as selfish/empty etc.

I am loving some of the questions on here! Things like, what do you think about cafes allowing children, do you resent paying taxes that contribute to schools etc
While I agree there are some quite bizarre and offensive questions, I actually really welcome that. That's kind of the point of AMA isn't it - ask people about things you otherwise wouldn't be able to but you'd always wondered about. I think people do have lots of questions and pre-conceptions about those who are child-free by choice and it's nice to have a place to discuss these.

Thanks @matutinal That's a really interesting reflection. I completely agree with your interpretation

Thanks matutinal.That's a really interesting reflection. I completely agree with your interpretation

Seconded. I've also noticed that on threads like this, people say, "Well, I thought I didn't want kids too, but then I had one & it was the best thing I ever did."

Or they'll pick up on comments like being repulsed by mess, or needing your own space, or liking your freedom, & come up with solutions or rebuttals. Like "But you don't mind the mess when it's your child" or "I have Saturday afternoons to myself", or "But having a child doesn't stop you having fun."

And I wonder what they're trying to achieve. Whether they're defending themselves or actually trying to talk us into having kids.

Yes @Matutinal! That pretty much sums up how I am. I was round 40 too. I was staunchly convinced from a child I wasn't going to be a parent. And other than saying I kind of "fell into" the idea, I don't think I actually changed my mind - it's so hard to explain. I got married and my DH and I just kind of were ambivalent about it. AND being perfectly, perfectly honest if I could turn back time I would say to myself to stick to my original plans of staying childfree because as much as love my DC and am loving knowing her. If I'd never have had her and not known her I think it would have been the better choice for me. But I wouldn't want to let her go now.

Goodness, I don't think I've ever admitted that to myself before.

I do absolutely recognise the revulsion of toddlers eating and the snotty nose thing. My stomach was in turmoil for the entire time my DC was this old. I couldn't eat with her. And sticky hand eugh- I really don't know how I did it except for the wonders of wet wipes

I didn't want children as a teenager and I don't want them now. Obviously you change your mind about a lot of things and stuff inside 20 years but I would have liked how I felt to have been validated, rather than immediately dismissed. I think that's important in general re emotional development as an individual. Even if you think someone's opinion is idiotic, it's still important to them.

I have also learned a response (on here!) to the eternally moot comment, 'but YOU were a child once!'
'Yes, and one day I'll be a corpse. Doesn't mean I want one in my house.'

Continuing from my previous post - another thing that happened was that as people found out I was pregnant there was almost an expression of exultation and "I told you so" from all the patronising gits. (huh, why are you so interested in my life choices?) from my mum and dad just "are you sure this is what you want?" Bless em!

Thank you for answering my question. I'm sorry that some of you have had nasty comments. I don't think it's selfish at all not to want children.

Mind you, if you have children there's always someone ready to call you selfish. If you have children relatively young, or old, in a single sex relationship, as a single parent, if you have lots, if you only have one, if you're unemployed, if you work long hours, if you have any health problems ....

Even if none of these apply to you, you're still selfish for destroying the environment.