I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness - Ask me anything

[ExJW]

More or less grew up amongst JWs, was baptised and very active in the religion for over 10 years including going door to door etc.!
Left by choice about 9 years ago and am treated as excommunicated / disfellowshipped.
Happy to answer any questions though they keep changing some of their doctrine so on that front I may not be 100% up to date.

How much violence / abuse is there? Is it just religious nuttery or a dangerous cult?
I have not personally experienced or witnessed any violence or abuse in a physical sense. I do know there have been/are issues with child abuse which aren’t dealt with very well because their requirement of witnesses to any such abuse before they will act against the accused - which of course is highly unlikely as it’s usually just the child’s word against the adult’s!
I would also say that there is a lot of emotional blackmail (if you leave you will lose all your friends and family), and the way guilt and fear is used to control members is arguably a form of mental / psychological abuse.

Overall I would say they fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between religious nuttery and dangerous cult - it’s not a suicide cult or one where you’re locked up and physically beaten, but they can definitely cause psychological harm to members.

Can I ask how somebody becomes an elder?
Baptised males who are “exemplary” (attend all meetings, hold talks on the platform, perform a certain number of hours of door to door preaching every month and haven’t been caught in any wrongdoing/have a good reputation) can first be appointed as “ministerial servants”, which gives them certain responsibilities and tasks to do and they also undergo “training” for this. Once someone has served as a ministerial servant for a while (usually a number of years, but I can’t say how many minimum), and also depending on the individual congregation’s needs, they may be considered for the position of elder. It’s not an application process as such - I believe the elders usually approach a person they deem suitable after they have discussed this amongst themselves or someone may express an interest.
In new congregations or ones with no or few elders it will usually be quicker to become an elder than in more established ones.

Becoming an elder they undergo more training at Bethel, they also have an elders’ handbook which no members who aren’t elders are allowed to see/read! This talks about issues like reprimanding members / disfellowshipping process etc.

Ex witnesses who are male or former elders may be of more use here, I was just a lowly woman.

Is there a view on smacking children, I.e., does it have a ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’ belief system as is the case for some extreme/ fundamentalist Christians?

Is there a view on smacking children, I.e., does it have a ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’ belief system as is the case for some extreme/ fundamentalist Christians?
They do use that scripture but it is not officially meant to be interpreted as physical. I believe this has changed over time in line with the general population’s view on smacking depending on what country they’re based in. I know JW parents who have used that scripture to justify physical punishment like smacking, and others who do not.
I spent many years living in a country where smacking children is actually illegal and never witnessed it there, I am sure it happens elsewhere though among JWs.

Thank you. 😌

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread.. no questions as such just fascinated reading all your responses!

A trivial one here: is there a specific dress code? Women in my area wear mid-calf length skirts. Never long skirts and rarely dresses. Just wondering if there are specific guidelines.

A trivial one here: is there a specific dress code?
Women are supposed to dress “modestly” while preaching and for meetings etc, either skirts or dresses are fine but nothing revealing i.e. no mini skirts, not show too much cleavage etc, also nothing too flashy / no high fashion that would distract from “the message”. That also means no “rebelliously” hair styles, no tattoos and no piercings except for conventional ear piercings (but not on men!). Not sure why you haven’t seen any long skirts or dresses!

Btw JW men usually need to dress in suits and ties for meetings and preaching (except for on very hot days), men are also advised to have short hair cuts (they shouldn’t look like women from afar), and beards are discouraged (this may be region specific but IME all elders had to be clean shaving or could perhaps have a neat moustache but no full beard).

I've had a JW lady knocking on my door for a while(over a year), I started inviting her in and she has been going through the bible with me which i hAve quite enjoyed.
Alot of it was curiosity (I have studied a lot about lots of different religions) but what you say about choosing vulnerable people also rings true.......I suffer with MH issues, get quite lonely and generally life can be a bit hectic.

I was raised in a c of e family......a lot of what I have learnt from the JWs is similar to what I learnt as a child. Other parts seem very alien.
Having read this thread I don't really want to get sucked into their hall meetings but I'm nor very good at being assertive. How would you deal with this?

This must be one of he most interesting threads I've read on MN.

My partner was raised JW and is now shunned from his JW 'family' as was disfellowshipped around 15 years ago. I have always wanted to ask a lot of these questions but his past can make him close up and if he is feeling particular emotional he refuses to discuss anything further. He suffers from depression and anxiety and this has basically been the last 15 years (since the disfellowship). He does not regret leaving, nor would he ever want to re join. But there are lots of hostile feelings towards his family as you can probably imagine, especially as they can speak to his siblings who decided against being baptised and chose a non JW life.

I guess my question is, do you still suffer from depression? If you do, how do you keep it from controlling you? If not, how on earth did you beat it and deal with the resentment of being shunned??

Also, well done for living your own life as you wish!!

Re grooming. Our family friend who visited recently and is still a JW said men can have near beards now too. JC had one after all! So that’s a bit nice for personal choice there.

I have a funny story a friend told me about when he was in front of the elders committee for doing something he shouldn’t. They prayed and Came out and said the Holy Spirit had moved them to decide he should be disfellowshiped. He said he gave them a hard stare and told them to go back and pray again. They did so, and reversed their decision. He only has the gumption to do this As he had been an elder and knew exactly how they operated 😂. Surprisingly he’s still a JW, even though he’s a bit of an arsehole

Thank you OP!

Having read this thread I don't really want to get sucked into their hall meetings but I'm nor very good at being assertive. How would you deal with this?
I’m glad to hear it! One thing you should know is that JWs do NOT give up easily, especially when they have visited someone for a while / been invited in etc. You have several options, it depends what you fee most comfortable with doing:

1. the direct route - firmly tell her at her next visit that you do not wish any further visits. Do not try to explain why because they are trained how to respond to rejection/arguments and this will only draw out the process unnecessarily.

2. more indirect rejection: Send a letter to the local congregation / Kingdom Hall of JWs and say you no longer wish to be visited by so-and-so (if you know her name) and to be put on the Do Not Call list. Again you don’t need to explain why. In theory they should tell this to the JW lady who has been visiting you and should respect that. But if she is of a particular type she may try to visit you one more time - in that case revert to 1) or 3)!

3. the softly approach / fading away: Whenever she comes to your door either don’t answer the door at all and pretend you’re not in (probably your best option if you wish to avoid being assertive), or say you are too busy to talk / just about to pop out etc, if offered literature say you unfortunately won’t have time to read it and it may end up in the bin. Do not get drawn into a discussion else the visits may never stop! This approach may take a while to work.

I hope this is of some help.

I guess my question is, do you still suffer from depression? If you do, how do you keep it from controlling you? If not, how on earth did you beat it and deal with the resentment of being shunned??

No, I haven’t suffered from „proper“ depression for years apart from a fairly mild case of PND after birth of my DC1. Sometimes certain things in life do affect my mood and make me feel down/depressed but it’s nothing like a real depressive episode and doesn’t affect my ability to live an ordinary life, work, etc. So I wouldn’t call this real depression and it is never to do with my JW past.

What helped me survive the first couple of years outside the organisation was talking to other ex-JWs online, as well as reading several books by ex-JWs and about cults in general which basically helped me rationalise what happened*. It also helped having a supportive „worldly“ partner but really no one understands what it’s like to come out of the JWs unless they’ve gone through it themselves.
I have made my peace with the fact that I will never have a relationship with my JW siblings, their children and my other JW relatives again. For others this may be more difficult especially if it’s your own parents!

I do find it concerning that it still affects your DP so much after such a long time through. Would he be willing to seek counselling? Ignoring things will not make them go away, it needs to be worked through.

• in case anyone’s interested: Apart from the information on jwfacts.com, useful books for me were „Crisis of conscience“ written by a former member of the governing body, and „Combating cult mind control“ by Steven Hassan (Not about JWs specifically so not all details apply but it helps understand the principles behind brainwashing in cults).

HerRoyalNotness
Interesting, there were always “brothers” with beards but are elders also permitted to have them now? I’ve been away from the JW community for a while obviously so recent developments are new to me.
It could also be a regional things too.

Thanks about the story, made me chuckle...

@ExJW thank you so much for your reply!

It's a bit more in depth than just being an ex JW I guess but that certainly is where a lot of bitterness comes from.

He does need counselling but is currently a huge fan of burying his head! Amazing insight here though it's greatly appreciated!

Thank you so much OP, very kind of you to take the time to do this thread.

Thank you, OP. Interesting insider's view.

@ExJW thank you for this. I'm an ex JW too.

I can also highly recommend the film Apostasy, which is doing the rounds just now for those interested in how JWs operate. Written & directed by a ex JW, it is spot on and enlightening.

This has been a fascinating read. Thanks very much for the thread. DH and I were discussing religion last night and he was impressed with my knowledge of JW!

One question (if you're still around) - the only prominent and public JW I can think of at the moment is Serena Williams. And Venus, of course. Serena often thanked her god Jehovah in her winner's speech after winning Wimbledon. I haven't heard her speak about her religion apart from that. How would she (and the elders, her family and JW friends) square her pregnancy with the JW beliefs? I know that she is married now (to another JW? I am not sure) but she wasn't when she got pregnant. A quick Google tells me that she was never baptised so maybe this is the way round it. I wonder how the JW elders would have dealt with discommunicating someone as high profile and successful as JW as Serena. What are your thoughts on this?

Hopefully not the end of the Q&A's..

My question is - what do JW's get out of converting people? What is their point?

As a previous study taker I know there are no financial gains. The witnesses are peaceful, non-political, clean living people. They don't want to associate with 'worldly people' & from the comments here, that seems to follow through to disfellowed family, although I'm aware of that not being entirely true.
TIA.

@ExJW I'be only read page one but will read more after work. You sound very brave.

I know a JW family who take it all very seriously, go door to door in suits with their children, don't celebrate birthdays or Christmas, go to conferences.

Their daughter is 17 and has two children with different fathers. She isn't married. She still lives with them and is part of their family. How is that?

I am shocked about this! I literally have zero knowledge of JW and don't know any personally. I didn't think it was cult like at all.

But I did have a man and a young girl knock on my door just yesterday. They come from time to time- different ones but one thing always strikes me is their immense politeness and manner. They are so kindly spoken, so lovely in their manner! Me and DH have both noticed this. Just that in itself draws you in!

Are they trained in how to talk when door knocking?

Also, when you left did you gradually stop participating or did you "come out" one day and announce to your family that you're leaving?

There seems to be a lot of us escapees about!

Re. Serena Williams, I don't know anything about her but, if she was never baptised then she isn't a JW in spite of her upbringing and isn't held to the same standards. Given her lifestyle, she won't even be allowed to be an unbaptised publisher (someone who goes out on the work before they are baptised), so it's likely that she just has a JW background or is "associated" with congregation (even that is a bit unlikely to be honest.).

Shednik, the daughter in that family isn't an adult yet so her parents still have a responsibility to look after her and provide for her. They will be expected to limit social or unnecessary interaction with her, though, until she sees the error of her ways and comes back to the Truth.

Oxford, no, there is no financial gain. Witnesses hope to ensure thier survival at armageddon. The preaching and teaching is an integral part of that. There is blood guilt to be borne (at least there used to be) for all the people who haven't heard the good news of the Kingdom, so one of the reasons for door kncking is to avoid the punishment that that blood guilt brings.

Also, at the end of Matthew's Gospel, Jesus commands his followers to go and make disciples of all the nations. It's called the Great Commission and the way JWs fulfil that is by knocking on door etc. They see this very much as proof that they are the only True Religion. In addition, THE END will not come until the good news is preached throughout the whole world, so the more doors knocked, the sooner Armageddon will come.

There is a lot of training for the door to door work. There is a meeting every week devoted to how to spread the word effectively. The training is given to children as well, they take part in the Theocratic Ministry School meetings.

I'm a bit different from the OP, Rhonda and the like in that I wasn't brought up in a JW family, I was recruited. I was a scared lonely teenager who had survived sexual abuse, rape and terrible bullying. I was living on my own in a strange city, away from home for the first time, starting uni. After the first contact, it was a couple of young girls round about my own age who were sent to folow up. They "befriended" me and I got sucked in.
My being at uni was a bit of a bone of contention, tbh, because all the other young folk were doing the whole JW thing of leaving education at the first available opportunity and dedicating themselves to the work. I wouldn't do that, I didn't leave uni. I think some of the men felt a bit threatened by having an educated woman amongst them, looking back.

I fell for it hook, line and sinker. I distanced myself from my friends and family, who were "holding me back". married my completely unsuitable boyfriend, gave up smoking, stopped going to my own church, did absolutely everything to make myself clean. I was inside for more than 20 years, but the ever changing teachings, the way people just accepted the word of the GB, even when it directly contradicted previous teachings, the way the GB tried to control even the sex lives of married couple, the denial of good in any other religion or people, and the complete lack of mercy and forgiveness wore away at me until I couldn't take it anymore. When I moved house, I just quietly disassociated myself. I took years for me to stop being terrified that I had condemned my children to a horrific death at armageddon, though.

I am back with my own church again, because I do believe in God, but there are still somethings that I am very uncomfortable with. I don't think that the effects of that level of indoctrination ever leave you really