Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AMA

I'm a university admissions tutor (make decisions about who to give offers to).. AMA

231 replies

JoshChan · 12/07/2018 09:56

Smile
OP posts:
GiveMePrivacy · 15/07/2018 18:19

Following on from the Home Ed question, a lot of home ed kids do their GCSEs or equivalent over 2 or 3 years, and do maybe 5 or 6. Assuming they go on to 6th form college and do A-levels the traditional way, does this put them at a disadvantage in applying for university?

@barleycorn -
We home educated and I attended 3 Oxbridge and RG outreach events and asked the same questions you have done here. I got the same response at each -
a) Definitely mention home education up to GCSEs in the personal statement, or ensure teachers mention it, because it probably means the applicant's GCSEs are fewer / lower than they would otherwise be, due to expense of sitting exams, lack of specialist support etc.
b) None of the admissions staff at any of the 3 outreach events seemed at all bothered about GCSEs being spread over several years, and neither did the academics we spoke to at university open days (or any of the places DS applied to, as all made him offers) . By that stage they're much more interested in what you're doing for A-levels.

Medicine may be an exception but note that when colleges say "10 A* GCSEs taken in one sitting" or whatever, on enquiry it has often turned out that they mean first-time passes, not including resits. Best for your DC to contact them, explain their circumstances and ask for clarification.

You can find lots of case studies on the HE Exams wiki here, including people who spread their GCSEs out & then one went into medicine, and several to Oxbridge : he-exams.wikia.com/wiki/Personal_experiences_of_home_educators

GiveMePrivacy · 15/07/2018 18:25

@HirplesWithHaggis - look at The College Of Law. You can do an undergraduate degree or postgraduate conversion online with occasional face-to-face elements. Many of their students are mature students. I don't think you'd be taking a place from a keen youngster somewhere like that - they'd rather be somewhere with a livelier bar Grin.

HirplesWithHaggis · 15/07/2018 18:31

Thanks, @GiveMePrivacy, but I'm in Scotland. And maybe I'll be looking for livIier bars... Grin

barleycorn · 15/07/2018 18:32

Thanks GiveMePrivacy, that’s very reassuring. I keep meaning to check out the HE exams wiki, thanks for the link.

Xenia · 15/07/2018 19:35

(Not wanting to divert to make this a law thread, but Hirples if you are in Scotland and presumably (if you were to practise it would be there) then I am sure you know we have different laws in Scotland and England so where you study can be more important than other subjects. I worked with a Scottish lawyer who qualified first in Scotland and the moved to England and then back. If you have any career experience in a different business field that can be useful when you're applying for law jobs - sometimes a particular industry will love to have someone who has worked with XYZ for 20 years and knows all about that sector)).

HirplesWithHaggis · 15/07/2018 21:08

Hi again Xenia. Yes, I know about our laws/legal systems being different, and it's Glasgow University I've looked at. They have an access course for the likes of me which practically guarantees a place on the full time course if I pass with a B or better, and I am (perhaps erroneously) fairly confident I can do that. I don't really have any relevant experience in business as I've mostly been self employed in caring type roles for the past twenty years, and I'm unlikely to move out of Scotland for family reasons. (Plus, I love it here and am hoping for independence soon. Grin )

If I do the access course next year, and then a four year fulltime course, I'll be 61 when I graduate, and I recognise that I would be unlikely to get a trainee position at that age, even if willing and able to work another 20 years thereafter. I suppose what I do with it will in part at least depend on what connections I make while studying, but really my motivation is selfish. Blush I've spent most of my life doing things for other people and this is an opportunity to do something for myself, and use my brain properly. I'm the only one of my siblings not to have a degree, and I get a weird little twinge when I vist our mum and she has their graduation photos up along with my wedding one, like that's my biggest achievement... gah, I'm rambling now, sorry.

This thread has given me a boot up the bum, my guilt at maybe depriving a young person is assuaged, and I'm starting to feel a little excited at this new chapter. Thanks. :)

Xenia · 16/07/2018 08:15

It sounds like a brilliant idea. Good luck with it.

FourFriedFlumps · 16/07/2018 12:26

That website was interesting. Where I lived when I made my application to University was 1 across the board. Where I live now is 5

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2018 15:00

How would I find out if my DSs school was a school with contextual factors applied? Sorry if there are links above!

Xenia · 16/07/2018 18:52

Bristol University's list of the 40% worst schools (to which the Bristol contextual offers apply) is at www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/undergraduate/documents/English-aspiring-state-schools-2019-cycle.pdf

First the other factors are at www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/

It is Bristol that has the most specific contextual offer system as far as I am aware (my twins are at Bristol)

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2018 19:24

Thanks Xenia, I will start with that but Bristol si out of DS1's reach. I keep reading about POSTAL5 or something? We need OP back..

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2018 19:34

Yup, his school is on that list, but not our postcode. We live on a new estate so goodness knows how that data is reliable!

Not sure whether that means he would get a contextual offer but he wouldn't even meet entry grades for Bristol that way anyway, sadly.

bevelino · 16/07/2018 20:35

OP are you coming back?

brizzledrizzle · 16/07/2018 20:36

Not sure whether that means he would get a contextual offer but he wouldn't even meet entry grades for Bristol that way anyway, sadly.

If the school is on the list then yes, he'd get a contextual offer. I believe that AAB/ABB is standard. There are plenty of other good universities out there - Bristol is only one of them.

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2018 20:45

I am clutching at straws brizzle hoping that somewhere might offer him a lower offer! He is massively underachieving, had an unqualified teacher, who is now leaving, has recently been allowed to use a laptop in exams but no named condition... but it tends to be RG and similar that apply context in soem way and he is at best looking at BBC. But with his general reclusiveness and emotional immaturity , I am not at all sure a big university would be for him.

A young man talked at his school tonight (but to DS2not DS1) about getting ADU in AS and is now going to York to do medicine after gaining a degree from Leicester. That was quite uplifting!

brizzledrizzle · 16/07/2018 21:29

@Piggywaspushed
Have a look at www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Admissions-in-Context-Final_V2.pdf this document - on page 13 there is a list of [some?] universities that do contextual offers.

Piggywaspushed · 16/07/2018 21:54

Thank you brizzle!

JoshChan · 17/07/2018 13:07

Sorry I haven't been back. You wouldn't believe the weekend I've had. Basically everyone in the family came down with food poisoning then my bedroom ceiling collapsed, then my mum was rushed to hospital. I've had zero time to get back here!

So, here are some short responses!!

btw I just advised a student to remove all her stuff about eating disorders and anxiety from her personal statement and now feel I was wrong. Is there another place it should go? It just felt a bit wrong there.
I’m in two minds. OTOH, if the student just mentioned it in a sense of over-coming adversity etc, that’s okay but a PS full of stories of personal struggles can be a bit odd and sometimes irrelevant.

Are you really suggesting he shouldn't bother? I don't see what other avenues there are for students like him...
I think students should do feels right at that time in their lives. However, I’m not sure 17/18 is the right age to be making decisions about future careers and getting into huge amounts of debt. My issue is that “university” is sold as a dream for working class kids without any acknowledgement that there is a very hierarchical system in which students going to lower ranked universities have poorer employment opportunities. It’s often billed as a way for working class kids to educate themselves “up” but this isn’t remotely guaranteed.

I am thinking about doing a secondary PGCE next year, my local university is low on the league tables. Does it matter so much at PGCE level?
I don’t think so, no. However, I’m not involved with PGT/PGCE admissions.

Do you think this applies to Masters applications aswell?
To some extent, yes. Ultimately, higher ranked universities attract “better” (take issue with this but that’s another thread!!) staff, are better resourced, are doing more research, making more impact. Getting a Masters (or degree) from these places looks better.
Finally do employers care where your masters was from?
Hmmm, less so than UG I think though if you can say you have a BA and MA from prestigious universities, that does look great.

As an admissions tutor do you try to prevent privately educated applicants from getting places?
No, not at all.

So are my children going to be disadvantaged for being at a private school ?
No contextual offers are just trying to level the playing field in favour of those who didn’t attend fee-paying schools.

Do you think universities should be a bit more transparent and open about what makes a successful application and what is important?
Yes. We do try and be as transparent as possible but we can’t share successful applications with applicants. We also can’t say for sure what a successful application looks like because this changes across departments and even from year-to-year. For example, if there’s a huge dip in application numbers then a student who didn’t stand a chance a year ago might well be offered a place this year.

Do you think in the next 5+ years when the number of UK 18 year olds has increased a bit again, it will be more competitive to get a place/offer?
No, I think more kids will choose not to go to university. I hope so anyway!

How much are you likely to "discount" an offer for a near miss applicant when you get their A-levels?
It depends on how many offer holders have taken up their place, so how many places are left to fill. If there are a lot of places left to fill, we might “discount” by as much as three grades. However, some of the more competitive departments wouldn’t take “near misses” in the first place and if they did would only discount by one grade.

And finally, does it annoy you when people say the University of Bath is RG?
No! Bath’s a good university.

Are these degrees any good or are the Dutch degrees taught in English just cash cows?
I don’t know enough about it, sorry. However, I am a bit suspicious of these types of degrees!

What do you think about the Oxbridge admission process and specifically whether interviewing students is fair? My own dd gained a place this way.
Interviewing students is massively unfair and privileges students from higher socio-economic backgrounds and fee-paying schools. All kids will be nervous on the day and may do terribly- it’s not indication of how good a student they’d be. From a staff perspective, it’s a huge investment of time as well!

Following on from the Home Ed question, a lot of home ed kids do their GCSEs or equivalent over 2 or 3 years, and do maybe 5 or 6. Assuming they go on to 6th form college and do A-levels the traditional way, does this put them at a disadvantage in applying for university?
Generally, no. We don’t look at GCSEs providing the student has C or above in English.

My daughter spent the majority of her teenage years on a national programme training long hours trying to make the Olympics. Her A level grades suffered immensely. At 22 how would you advise the best route to get into a reputable university? She's been advised Access could be an option but how would that be looked upon against students who have the appropriate grades?
Foundation courses at universities are great in scenarios like this. Our foundation-route students are, generally, brilliant!!

How would I find out if my DSs school was a school with contextual factors applied?
Some universities have it on their website (Bristol does). Otherwise, I’d be tempted to just ring the university and ask!

OP posts:
ElizabethinherGermanGarden · 17/07/2018 13:19

What's your advice on Law A-Level, for a student who might want to study Law? The Law teacher is one of the very best at her school and she is inspired (and so likely to do well) but was advised by a high-up chap from the Inner Temple that Law A-Level was a bad idea.

mnahmnah · 17/07/2018 13:26

As a secondary school teacher i’m finding this thread both interesting and useful. Thank you!

I teach A-level Religious Studies and often get asked by parents, and a governor recently, what the value of it is as a subject, what can it lead to, how do universities view it. Obviously I am well-trained in answering these questions and passionately defend my subject.

I am curious to hear how you view it please, when you see it on a student’s application?

Xenia · 17/07/2018 13:32

(Elizabeth, she should not do law if she wants to be a lawyer. She should aim for high grades in as many facilitating subjects (at least two if possible) as she can manage to leave most options open in law.
These are facilitating subjects

Mathematics and Further Mathematics
English Literature
Physics
Biology
Chemistry
Geography
History
Languages (Classical and Modern)

So eg I lawyer did German, Engluish and History but you could as easily do maths and 2 sciences or two of the subjects above and one other than is reasonably hard rather than advanved knitting or its equivalent.

JoshChan · 17/07/2018 13:38

What's your advice on Law A-Level, for a student who might want to study Law? The Law teacher is one of the very best at her school and she is inspired (and so likely to do well) but was advised by a high-up chap from the Inner Temple that Law A-Level was a bad idea
Confused I'm not sure why he'd have commented on that. Once the student has a law degree, the A-levels become extremely secondary so it shouldn't matter. My colleagues in Law certainly have never said anything about not liking students with Law A-level.

OP posts:
JoshChan · 17/07/2018 13:39

@Xenia

That's really interesting, thanks!

OP posts:
ElizabethinherGermanGarden · 17/07/2018 13:41

Thanks Xenia. That was my instinctive advice too based on university friends' experiences, but they're all as old as me so 25 years out of date. The Inner Temple chap was just the old-fartiest caricature you could wish to come across and I wondered if times had changed. Glad to know that we're not putting her off for no reason.

JoshChan · 17/07/2018 13:42

I am curious to hear how you view it please, when you see it on a student’s application?
Just for context: I teach in the social sciences on a course which isn't hugely competitive. Seeing RS on an application wouldn't bother me either way. We don't specify particular subject requirements so we have students who've done a huge range of subjects at college including RS.

For other social science degrees and humanities degrees, I suspect it would be the same kind of situation but I think my colleagues in Physics or Chemistry might question to relevance of RS to their degrees

OP posts: