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AMA

I'm a university admissions tutor (make decisions about who to give offers to).. AMA

231 replies

JoshChan · 12/07/2018 09:56

Smile
OP posts:
dingit · 12/07/2018 16:36

I hear what you say about RG universities. What is your view the on the 1992 group? ( I think that's what they are referred to forgive me if I'm wrong). Dd had a lot of tut tutting over her choice, Surrey for aerospace engineering. However we did plenty of research and it was highly rated for that course, and is also accredited ( she is doing a Masters). For some reason people don't think very highly of Surrey at all.

Mankymonkey · 12/07/2018 16:37

What difference do you think it would make doing a university course as someone with undiagnosed autism as opposed to going diagnosed and declared, please? Largely in terms of the help given by the university?

chipsandgin · 12/07/2018 17:31

Just wanted to say thank you for your answer on ADHD earlier - that’s really reassuring (I’m a Mum of a diagnosed boy who is very bright and has big aspirations and have worried about this so it is great to know this - you’ve made my day!)

TheOwlTheory · 12/07/2018 17:33

@bargain bin RG = Russell Group

BME = Black and Minority Ethnic

TheOwlTheory · 12/07/2018 17:34

X-post with titchy!

JoshChan · 12/07/2018 18:20

For instance you've said several times that you wouldn't expect a comprehensive school kid to have grade 8 violin or voluntary work in Outer Mongolia. You're sort of implying there that:
a) you'd expect to see that in a private schools kid
b) that you actually check the school's status when you trawl through applications
c) that these things help
d) everyone reads the PS
e) most offers are made centrally - ie not by an academic!

I didn't meant I'd expect to see it in a student that went to private school. What I meant is that some students get the opportunities to do things that other students don't (playing the violin being an example). I also see students list completely irrelevant things like this in their personal statements all the time so it's a good example. If you're not doing a music degree, it's irrelevant but schools very often tell students to just put down everything extra-curricular that they do.

Our applications are dealt with in departments not centrally (so are assessed by academics) and I read every single personal statement. In departments which are very competitive, the personal statement can really count as staff are deciding between a swathe of students who all meet and exceed the very high grade boundaries.

I also don't know any admissions tutors who see whether applicants have gone to state or private school, or check what POLAR postcode they live in, or check their BME - NONE of that should EVER be looked at
We're given that information when applications come to us. POLAR3 and 4 students are flagged to us.

POLAR3 and 4 is based on the number of 18 year olds going to university in that postcode, divided by the number of child benefit recipients. It is NOT a measure of deprivation, it is at best a proxy, and a poor one at that. In London there are hardly any quintile 1 POLAR postcodes, but there are large swathes of poverty
Thanks for that. I was told this at some point. I agree it's not a measure of deprivation but it's the closest we have to capturing the contexts students come from

OP - I notice you (like me) say university - does uni make you wince?
Yep. I've even seen students call it "uni" on their personal statement. Ugh. My mum always asks me if I've had "a good day at uni" like I'm an 18 year old exchange student finding my way around a new fucking campus.

Agree with you, @titchy - I have been Admissions at Oxbridge, RG and finally post-92, and it's all slightly different, even without the different systems
Yep, different everywhere. I've tried to be clear that when I'm talking about specifics, I'm talking about my institution and my department.

I've left quite recently, but something that I found distasteful at my RG institution was the active anti-private education stance, always done with a chuckle and the tacit nudge nudge wink wink that privately educated candidates were obviously dim and spoon-fed. Quite disappointing to discover that supposedly intelligent individuals subscribed so openly to lazy stereotypes and groupthink, but at least the rosy-tinted spectacles came off quickly
I haven't experienced this at all. The university I work at is dominated by privately-educated students (both in terms of numbers and culturally). It's not that privately-educated students are spoonfed, but rather they're educated and coached in a very different way. They are encouraged and nurtured to be self-assured, self-confident, and to value their own opinions (even if what they are saying is nonsense). This is absolutely brilliant and makes for some fantastic class discussions but those students who haven't benefited from that educational background don't have the same self-assurance and can get left behind and feel intimidated.
There is also an issue that some privately-educated students (not all but some) can be very unreflexive and not recognise the huge amounts of privilege that they've had. For example, we had a debate in class this year about tuition fees and one student commented that he didn't see the issue because £9,000 a year is a lot less than "most" schools. He was genuinely stunned when I pointed out that a £30,000 per year school fee was more than triple my family's household income growing up. He wasn't being malicious, just ignorant. At the other end of the scale there is active malice, like when Durham students had a social event based on Thatcher and the miners here. Completely inappropriate and hugely offensive.

I strongly believe universities should only admit privately-educated kids to reflect the proportion that are privately-educated in the population more widely (about 8%). That way, there might not be terribly much advantage to privately-educating and maybe these kids would enter in to the normal school system and drag standards up

OP posts:
JoshChan · 12/07/2018 18:26

Just wanted to say thank you for your answer on ADHD earlier - that’s really reassuring (I’m a Mum of a diagnosed boy who is very bright and has big aspirations and have worried about this so it is great to know this - you’ve made my day!)
Smile Really pleased. University disability services are always very nice so do get in touch with them directly if you're concerned too.

What difference do you think it would make doing a university course as someone with undiagnosed autism as opposed to going diagnosed and declared, please? Largely in terms of the help given by the university?
The university wouldn't be able to give terribly much help to someone with an undiagnosed condition unfortunately. However, there is lots of
help for those with a diagnosis. Disability support services and pastoral services would, though, be open to a discussion about reasonable adjustments I suspect. Sorry if that's not very helpful

I hear what you say about RG universities. What is your view the on the 1992 group? ( I think that's what they are referred to forgive me if I'm wrong). Dd had a lot of tut tutting over her choice, Surrey for aerospace engineering. However we did plenty of research and it was highly rated for that course, and is also accredited ( she is doing a Masters). For some reason people don't think very highly of Surrey at all.
I think you mean 1994 group! All happening in the early 90s! They are alright universities and some are highly rated for particular subjects. I think Surrey is a good university. It's not at the top of the tree but it's good. It being accredited does make a difference too. If she likes it and has a good feeling about it- go for it!

OP posts:
WeirdScenesInsideTheGoldmine · 12/07/2018 18:29

Thankyou, I am a writer and want to do an MA in English

JoshChan · 12/07/2018 18:29

I'm currently in university and would love to do a post-grad abroad somewhere in Europe. When you are looking at admitting a foreign student from a different educational system (Brazil, in this case), how do you factor the grades, seeing as the exams would likely be very different?
We have equivalence guidance that'd say an AAB (or whatever) is equivalent to XXX qualifications s in Brazil. University websites should have this information or else give the international office a call

OP posts:
JoshChan · 12/07/2018 18:30

Thankyou, I am a writer and want to do an MA in English
Go for it! Sounds awesome Grin

OP posts:
Wiifitmama · 12/07/2018 18:31

Thank you for this. I am finding it very interesting as my first ds (of 3) is about to do his UCAS application this autumn.

My question is: Do you ever get applications from students who have been home educated and if so, what do you think of them? You have talked about the different view of private vs state education applicants. Where does home ed fall in this?

My ds was home educated all the way through his GCSEs and only went into 6th form this past year. His UCAS predicated grades are 3 A*'s and he is most certainly applying to RG Universities. Is it just his high grades that matter or should he highlight his home ed background when he writes his personal statement?

titchy · 12/07/2018 18:34

I strongly believe universities should only admit privately-educated kids to reflect the proportion that are privately-educated in the population more widely (about 8%).

Can't say I agree with that tbh (and I say that as a state school parent). One of the magnificent things about the U.K. HE sector is its diversity. Fix the amount of private school kids (apart from the logistical nightmare that would be - you're fairly inexperienced and probably don't remember the joys of student number control!) and you start to remove that diversity. The educational inequalities aren't simply at the private/state divide. They're far more nuanced than that. What do you think would happen to Durham or Exeter for example if they could only recruit 8% from private schools. They would have to shrink massively. Is that any good for state school kids? For the local economies of those areas?

Come on OP you're a social scientist, you should be aware of those things.

titchy · 12/07/2018 18:39

Is it just his high grades that matter or should he highlight his home ed background when he writes his personal statement?

Sorry don't want to butt in - but the above should definitely be covered by the academic reference. The PS he writes can mention it, but should largely cover his interest in the degree subject.

Wiifitmama · 12/07/2018 18:44

Titchy - thanks for answering but surely the academic reference comes from his 6th form. Why would they highlight his home ed background?

titchy · 12/07/2018 18:53

Presumably he came to them from being home educated? With unusual GCSEs? They'd be best placed to comment on how his HE has been of benefit to his current studies. He could say 'I was home educated which makes me wonderful because x, y, z', but if his tutor can say 'Fred came to us having been previously home educated and this has made him an exceptional learner because x, y, z' that has far more clout.

Hellbentwellwent · 12/07/2018 18:56

josh random one for you. I studied medicine when I first went to uni and quit after the first two years for a number of reasons. I went on to get a degree in maths and did a masters in a different field later. I’ve always regretted quitting medicine and I’d love to go back to it but I’m 38. I’ve had a really interesting career but still I get pangs to go back to medicine, would you consider an application from a mature student under these circumstances?

dingit · 12/07/2018 18:59

Thank you Josh, she's already done a year at Surrey Smile

anotherpersona · 12/07/2018 19:14

@WeirdScenesInsideTheGoldmine I was accepted on to MSc at an RG without a Bachelors on the basis of career & professional qualifications.

bluetrampolines · 12/07/2018 19:16

How did you get your job?

Wiifitmama · 12/07/2018 19:21

Titchy - that sounds great but I am not sure I have any say in what they write and not sure I can suggest they mention his home ed.

SubtitlesOn · 12/07/2018 19:34

Found the correct name ........

EXTENDED PROJECT QUALIFICATION or EPQ

Do you think they were worth doing about 5 or 6 years ago?

No idea if they are still done nowadays.

JoshChan · 12/07/2018 19:41

My question is: Do you ever get applications from students who have been home educated and if so, what do you think of them? You have talked about the different view of private vs state education applicants. Where does home ed fall in this?
We only get a few applicants from home educated students but, basically, as long as the grades look good and the personal statement communicates that this is an exciting, interesting, interested and motivated student then there's no issue at all (good or bad)

Is it just his high grades that matter or should he highlight his home ed background when he writes his personal statement?
He could mention it in the personal statement but as PP said, the reference would cover this

OP posts:
JoshChan · 12/07/2018 19:43

My ds was home educated all the way through his GCSEs and only went into 6th form this past year. His UCAS predicated grades are 3 A's and he is most certainly applying to RG Universities. Is it just his high grades that matter or should he highlight his home ed background when he writes his personal statement?*
Sorry I actually just read that properly! If he's been at sixth form for A-levels, I don't think it necessarily needs to be mentioned unless the teacher thinks it's given him, for example, a sense of independence or something else which makes him "stand out". Sorry for not reading properly in the first place Smile

OP posts:
JoshChan · 12/07/2018 19:46

Can't say I agree with that tbh (and I say that as a state school parent). One of the magnificent things about the U.K. HE sector is its diversity. Fix the amount of private school kids (apart from the logistical nightmare that would be - you're fairly inexperienced and probably don't remember the joys of student number control!) and you start to remove that diversity. The educational inequalities aren't simply at the private/state divide. They're far more nuanced than that. What do you think would happen to Durham or Exeter for example if they could only recruit 8% from private schools. They would have to shrink massively. Is that any good for state school kids? For the local economies of those areas?
I guess we just have a difference of opinion, then. I completely disagree about diversity though. Elite institutions aren't diverse and need to be. It's not just about numbers it's about culture too.

Come on OP you're a social scientist, you should be aware of those things.
Hmm

OP posts:
JoshChan · 12/07/2018 19:49

I’ve had a really interesting career but still I get pangs to go back to medicine, would you consider an application from a mature student under these circumstances?
I don't deal with medicine applications specifically and they do things a bit differently. However, I would say, yes! Having a few years of work experience has given you skills and experiences which will be invaluable for you in your medical career. As I said above, we academics love mature students Grin
I would ring the particular medical school you're looking at though and have an informal chat with them about it too.

OP posts:
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