I'm a university admissions tutor (make decisions about who to give offers to).. AMA

[JoshChan]

You say that you think too many privately educated children get into good universities.
As an admissions tutor do you try to prevent privately educated applicants from getting places?

For anyone depressed about ps not being read or extracurricular stuff not mattering, just to say that for some careers it will matter soon.

I recruit undergraduates for placements and graduates to very competitive roles. I really read the supporting information as I have to short list from 100s applicants, all with similar qualifications.

I’m always especially interested in their experience of work, paid or voluntary. I’m also more impressed by volunteering in something local, with a long term commitment, than a one off bit of volunteering abroad.

For my sector (health) experience doing something where they have dealt with the public, worked shifts is helpful. If they’ve done sport or music, I’d expect them to be able to tell me what skills they gained that will be useful in their role rather than just having a hobby.

Nothing wrong with a hobby mind but do it because you like it and if you don’t do it when your young, it can be hard to find the time and money later.

So are my children going to be disadvantaged for being at a private school ?

As someone who advises applicants in a voluntary capacity:

University admissions often feels like a bit of a dark art to students. Do you think universities should be a bit more transparent and open about what makes a successful application and what is important?

Do you think in the next 5+ years when the number of UK 18 year olds has increased a bit again, it will be more competitive to get a place/offer?

How much are you likely to "discount" an offer for a near miss applicant when you get their A-levels?

And finally, does it annoy you when people say the University of Bath is RG? ;)

user I work with secondary PGCE for a very 'low ranked' university (note the speech marks as I hate all thsi ranking business!). It doesn't matter at all in terms of employment. Teachers stay local a lot more these days and just tend to be employed in schools near the nearest 'appropriate body'. Some PGCEs are definitely better than otehrs : I would say ours is a bit unimaginative and not very up with the times : but that is mroe to do with the teacehrs in the partner schools than the institution. We have some teachers with Cambridge PGCEs and they are definitely a notch above just because it is Cambridge I guess : but a teacher is a teacher is a teacher!

As for the 'bums on seats' comment : I am sure this is true but the university websites all suggest CCC and above which is hardly ' any amn and his dog' !

are my children going to be disadvantaged for being at a private school ?

I rather think the point being made is that they have many many advantages !

My sons' school had 100% failure rate for Oxbridge last year (private school) but even so as there is a lot of luck in it (my boys didn't try). I don't think they are disadvantaged in university entrance. Well I suppose to an extent they provably are as they are both at Bristol where children from the bottom 40% of schools get contextual offers of 1 or 2 grades lower spo to work out if there is disadvantage you would have to compare children in say an almost top 60% and almost bottom of the top 60% school and see what their A level grades are for similar children. You could do a graph to plot the results and perhaps also use data from children in schools in the middle of each band and then some at the very top eg Manchester Grammar v the worst comprehensive in the country.

Piggywaspushed - it’s really important to encourage teacher mobility around the country in order to spread new skills and experience. The geographic localisation of the teaching profession does it no favours.

My eldest 4 have graduated/are students now. They were educated at independent schools and did not do mega extra-curriculars, yet still managed 20 offers between them.

I am very uncomfortable about assumptions being made about a student’s background. A-level grades (or equivalent) should be the standard, as well as passion for the subject they want to study.

My DD wants to study Political Science in The Netherlands, either at The University of Amsterdam or Leiden University. She is looking for a career in The UN or Foreign Office.

Are these degrees any good or are the Dutch degrees taught in English just cash cows?

No, our children are in private because we prioritise education above the other stuff, I’ll be damned if they end up being more harshly judged for it especially as they’re Only in private because they’re autistic so have their own disadvantages to worry about

Just repeating facts user responding to a question

I haven't heard that particular accusation about teachers before, amongst the many I have heard!

In the part of the country I live in, teachers and students can't afford housing, so many young people come home from university and choose to do their PGCE while staying with aprents. because of issues with recruitment, those students are often offered jobs in their training school.

I am from Scotland and teach 60 miles from London. I am not sure that makes me a better teacher?

At the moment, schools are all for nurturing home grown talent; it can become insular but such are market forces.

No, our children are in private because we prioritise education above the other stuff

I get that you've done that because it's what you think is best for your children and that's great but it does imply that people who haven't sent their children private don't prioritise education above the other stuff.

What do you think about the Oxbridge admission process and specifically whether interviewing students is fair? My own dd gained a place this way.

@brizzledrizzle

I get that it comes across
Like that, but we are not going to be cramming his personal statement full Of Volunteering and skiing holidays. Not all private school kids come from the same privileged background. We had no choice actually because he couldn’t cope in class of 30 kids So we’ve moved them.

And I really can’t stand the thought of them being discriminated against after all that sacrifice. You wouldn’t either.

A-levels (and equivalents) are the accepted entry route into Higher Education. Any other selection method should be transparent and fair. It should not be up to admissions tutors with their own agendas, assuming things about families, schools they know nothing about, areas they know nothing about.

We, as a family, do very little in the way of extra curricular because we can’t afford it after paying school fees. If they went to state schools, then we could and they would then have all the opportunities you can imagine.

As it happens, my kids haven’t come across anti private school bias.

For example, DC4 received an AAA offer from a RG university. A few weeks later, they reduced it to AAB, then a few weeks after that, reduced it to ABB (no intervention from her at any point).

The other thing to remember about independent schools is that they aren’t all exam factories with gifted children. There are plenty of schools that cater for students for whom life is a serious struggle and getting to the end of sixth form is an achievement in itself. Where are the contextual offers for these students?

@weirdscenesinsidethegoldmines Not all private school kids come from the same privileged background. We had no choice actually because he couldn’t cope in class of 30 kids So we’ve moved them.

Like I said, it's great that you did. I am perhaps just a little touchy that education is so important to me but that I often come up against the assumption that I care less about my children's education because they are growing up in poverty.

Inspired by reading some of this thread the other day, I looked into returning to university, having been a teen dropout in 1980. Obviously my qualifications are well out of date and I would need to do an access course, as offered by my nearest university. I would like to take a Law degree but acknowledge that at my age (I would be early 60's when I graduate) I would never work as an actual lawyer and would really be doing it for my own personal satisfaction.

Which is all very well and good, learning should be lifelong and so on, but the prospectus does mention Law as being a vocational, career based course and I wonder if it would be ethical to maybe effectively take a place from a younger student who could make more use of it.

@brizzledrizzle

I know, I’m quite angry that I had to
Move them because every single school in our area has classes of 30+ kids (I did try that route first) and I have no idea how the more introverted children cope with it. I know I couldn’t have. Feel like I’m cheating in a way. But he was refusing to go to school,
Coming out upset because it was too Noisy, we didn’t have a choice.

Thanks for this thread, it’s very interesting.

Following on from the Home Ed question, a lot of home ed kids do their GCSEs or equivalent over 2 or 3 years, and do maybe 5 or 6. Assuming they go on to 6th form college and do A-levels the traditional way, does this put them at a disadvantage in applying for university?

Hirples, you are not likely to be taking a place from anyone at the moment- suddenly we have many fewer 18 year olds and plenty of universities are struggling to fill places so now is probably the best time to do your law degree and as I hope towork as a lawyer until well over 80 you might also have 20 years of career ahead of you!

barleycorn I think it might only matter for some courses. DD was looking at medicine last year and some universities insisted on at least 6 As or above taken in one sitting.

My daughter spent the majority of her teenage years on a national programme training long hours trying to make the Olympics. Her A level grades suffered immensely. At 22 how would you advise the best route to get into a reputable university? She's been advised Access could be an option but how would that be looked upon against students who have the appropriate grades?

Thanks, Xenia, that makes me feel better!

@aubergineterrine as a mature student, albeit only just, I'd suggest Access, unless resits would work better for her - or possibly, depending what she wants to do, a Foundation Year (if she meets the acceptance criteria). It's worth noting that there's a demographic blip in University age people atm so fewer younger people available to apply so offers are generally lower/more flexible. Might be worth her taking a look in clearing this year? (Alternatively, focus applications towards universities that understand international sports on various levels, eg Bath, though again, depends how she actually did.