I'm a university admissions tutor (make decisions about who to give offers to).. AMA

[JoshChan]

Thank you Joshchan.
(That chimes with my experience - I know a lot of academics and it worries me how complacent some of them are about this stuff, but none of those are in the social sciences.)

Ha, hopefully I’m not that bad, my daughter is just so shy and I’m the opposite so no idea where she gets it from. I’m learning to stand back. She is a quiet observer. She wants to study medicine, is currently at a Grammar school, capable but her shyness is crippling.

She is a quiet observer. She wants to study medicine, is currently at a Grammar school, capable but her shyness is crippling
Most Departments will answer questions by email so she doesn't need to actually talk with anyone either over the phone or in person, which can be scary. It'd be good for her to prepare a couple of questions to ask at open days, if only to get into the habit of talking with academics. Really best of luck to her

Do you think too many young people go to university now?
Yes, most definitely.

You can say that again. I begged my children not to go to university but they wanted to do what all their friends were doing.
What a complete waste of time and money.

Thank your Josh that’s really helpful, really appreciate it.

How do you feel about the huge rise in teenage mental health issues? Would it put universities off a student if they declared diagnosed depression or anxiety on their application?

A friend of mine has a kid who was made a conditional offer, but he doesn't think he made the grade on one of the subjects. His second choice also called him after his exams just to see how they went, how he feels about them and what he's planning to do for the summer. So my questions are:

A. In your experience, can the conditions be lowered slightly if a student misses the mark if the student is otherwise a good fit for the university and course, and had a great personal statement?

B. How often do admissions call students to check in after exams? (I'd never heard of this before, but it has been a long time since I was at university, and I've a few more years before my DC start applying!)

You can say that again. I begged my children not to go to university but they wanted to do what all their friends were doing
What a complete waste of time and money
That's really sad and you're absolutely right that the money issue is huge. For me the problem is that there aren't enough companies doing in-house training. Rather than taking a 16/18 year old school leaver and putting them on a three or five year training scheme/apprenticeship, companies just push it back on to the students themselves through universities. This, coupled with an inflation of qualification requirements for entry-level jobs, means many young people see no choice but to go to university.

I'd like to see much more in-house training and much more value placed on jobs which don't require a degree.

How do you feel about the huge rise in teenage mental health issues?
I feel depressed for our young people. Me and DP often talk about how hellish it'd be to be a young person nowadays.
I think a lot of it is to do with educational pressure which universities are at the centre of. I also think it's a lot to do with social media and young people never taking time "off" from the world. I do, though, every year see students gaming the system to the detriment of those who actually need support.

Would it put universities off a student if they declared diagnosed depression or anxiety on their application?
No, not at all.

In your experience, can the conditions be lowered slightly if a student misses the mark if the student is otherwise a good fit for the university and course, and had a great personal statement?
It depends on the course. Where I work, History and English wouldn't consider doing this for a second because they have about 12 credible applicants per place. Simply put, they can be incredibly choosy about who they take.
In my subject, we're not that over-subscribed so if a student had a great personal statement (a real sense of enthusiasm and motivation and just someone we'd be generally excited about teaching), then we'd definitely consider doing this.

How often do admissions call students to check in after exams? (I'd never heard of this before, but it has been a long time since I was at university, and I've a few more years before my DC start applying!)
I've never heard of this. My instinct would be that they're nervous about filling their places for the coming year and are ringing all of their offer holders to keep them warm, to try and make themselves look very caring and welcoming in the hope they students will go there in October.

Do you think the £9,200 a year fees are justified? Are universities becoming more like businesses than institutes of learning?

Is there any point in applying to a RG university if your A level results (already achieved) are below the entry requirements as stated on the website
.

Do you think the £9,200 a year fees are justified?
This is a really complex issue. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask students to pay tuition for courses which they do "just because....", rather than for a particular career or which make a particular contribution to society. I don't think taxpayers should fund students to do "mickey-mouse" degrees at universities which offer poor quality teaching. If students want to do that, they should pay- though £9K might be excessive!
However, as I've said, I think there needs to be systemic change whereby just blindly going in and forking out all that money at 18 isn't the norm. I don't morally object to tuition fees in principle as long as students have made informed/rational/mature choices, which very few 18 years olds do.

Are universities becoming more like businesses than institutes of learning?
No, they're not becoming businesses. They are businesses now.

Great thread JoshChan.

I'm interested to know whether Universities distinguish between:
(1) applicants who have had an 'easier' educational experience (eg private school, access to music, sports etc so lots to put in their personal statement) and
(2) applicants who've probably had to be far more independent and self-motivated (eg average comprehensive, no music lessons etc).

Its partly about grades (does an A* require the same work from the pupil if you're in a mixed class of 30 compared to a very able class of 15?).
Its also about extra curricular activities - average comps simply can't lay on access to music/sports in the same way. Parents who are poorer and who work longer hours can't provide access either.

What does the less privileged pupil put in their personal statement? That they spent their out of school hours looking after younger siblings, doing housework, helping their parents earn money?

Is there any point in applying to a RG university if your A level results (already achieved) are below the entry requirements as stated on the website
It depends on the course, how far below the entry requirements they are, and whether there are any "contextual factors" at play. If the course isn't over-subscribed and/or your grades aren't massively below the standard tariff then it's most definitely worth it. If there are "contextual factors" in play (e.g. poverty, care, BME), then worth it as you might be made a contextual offer on a lower grade tariff.
I would recommend contacting the admissions tutor in the Department to ask. They won't be able to tell you for definite if you'd be offered a place but they'll give an indication and you can read between the lines.

This is a really interesting thread, so thank you!

However:

"BME lives/values/cultures are invisible and not valued at elite universities through everyday culture. For example, Caribbean food is only served on "theme" days like world food day or during BHM."

I have a real issue with the idea that "world food" should be served up in every day contexts. I think we should be thinking about eating locally grown and produced food almost all the time, and certainly every day.

Hi Josh, really interesting AMA. Thanks.

I know you’re social sciences but I have a stem question.
DS wanted to go to med school, so has taken chemistry, biology and maths.
He decided against further maths (his strongest subject) as he worried it would impact negatively on his science grades.

He’s now decided he wants to do a maths degree but the universities he likes all want further maths.

Would he be better off going to med school for a year then applying for a maths degree (he has the grades), or taking a gap year to work in a maths related city job and doing a further maths a-level before applying?

We are BME and he attends the local comp.

I'm interested to know whether Universities distinguish between:
(1) applicants who have had an 'easier' educational experience (eg private school, access to music, sports etc so lots to put in their personal statement) and
(2) applicants who've probably had to be far more independent and self-motivated (eg average comprehensive, no music lessons etc).
Yes, we do make a distinction. People in the second group may well be made a "contextual offer" which means they are offered a place with lower grade requirements in acknowledgement that there are contextual factors at play which may have affected the student's attainment.
If there are no discernible "contextual factors", then we'd still recognise that the students in group 2 haven't had the advantages of those in group 1 and so wouldn't have had the same experiences or exposures. We wouldn't expect a group 2 student to be a grade 9 in violin and so wouldn't judge their application on this being absent. A group 1 student who's had all the advantages in life and doesn't have much to show for it would be judged quite harshly.

What does the less privileged pupil put in their personal statement? That they spent their out of school hours looking after younger siblings, doing housework, helping their parents earn money?
It's much less about things students have done and much more about communicating passion for a subject and for education. So it's fine to say that you've done these things but what have you learnt from this? What do these experiences give you that you will bring to your degree? Why do these experiences make you someone we want in the classroom? In a student who has these sorts of experiences I'd like to see comments about independence, resilience, being part of the "adult world". I see so many applications from very privileged students who just give a list of all the extra-curricular things they've done with absolutely no reflection on this or indication as to why it makes them a good social scientist.

What do you think will happen to the UK university sector post-Brexit?

I have a real issue with the idea that "world food" should be served up in every day contexts. I think we should be thinking about eating locally grown and produced food almost all the time, and certainly every day.
That was just an example that sprang to mind. Another example might be that the only time black faces appear on the walls at universities is during BHM- BME people/lives/cultures aren't part of the fabric of universities is what I meant.

Would he be better off going to med school for a year then applying for a maths degree (he has the grades), or taking a gap year to work in a maths related city job and doing a further maths a-level before applying?
My instinct would be to do a Further Maths A-level during a gap year as Further Maths is likely to be a "check" of quality/aptitude to make sure all students can cope with degree level maths. A year of medical school is a waste of time and money as he wouldn't be able to "transfer" credits so would just have to start all over again.
However, I'd get in touch with one of the departments he's looking at and ask them for advice specifically. Best of luck to him!

Another example might be that the only time black faces appear on the walls at universities is during BHM- BME people/lives/cultures aren't part of the fabric of universities is what I meant.

I'm an immigrant and I am very proud of my heritage and it is a deep part of me. But in my host country I defer to the host culture. Sure, I encounter prejudice and blank looks at times. But that is my problem. Education is culturally relative, not an absolute.

Thank you so much!
I’ve emailed the depts but not heard back yet.

That was our instinct too and also thought grinding away for a year at a course he didn’t actually want to do would be demoralising and expensive!

Really appreciate the advice. Cheers.

What do you think will happen to the UK university sector post-Brexit? Crikey. I have absolutely no idea TBH and I don't think anyone does! I think there's a lot of panic.
The worst case scenario is that the UK has no access to European funding streams which would significantly decrease the amount of money available to researchers. Some would argue that this would be bad for businesses and the economy but I'm not so sure as I'm not convinced UK European-funded research actually adds much to business/the economy anyway.
Best case scenario, things stay pretty much the same.

I think panics about not attracting European staff/talent are completely overblown and unfounded.

European students may stop coming but, TBH, in my discipline at least the impact of this would be minimal.

I’ve emailed the depts but not heard back yet
Give it time, academics take weird and long holidays over summer.

Would you accept a 2.2 for a masters course if that has been achieved 20 years prior to a relevant and successful career?

Or is there no point?