I'm a university admissions tutor (make decisions about who to give offers to).. AMA

[JoshChan]

How did you get your job?
I've been through a pretty standard academic career. After my degree, I did an MA mostly because I was graduating in 2009 during the recession and there were no jobs! Then I went on to a PhD, did some contract research and then on to my lectureship. In my lectureship I ended up in the admissions role because I'm a friendly face for prospective students- I've been told this explicitly and implicitly over the years

EXTENDED PROJECT QUALIFICATION or EPQ

Do you think they were worth doing about 5 or 6 years ago?
Yes, they can look good on a UCAS application though I'd like to see some reflection on what undertaking the EPQ has given the student in terms of skills and experiences rather than just "I did the EPQ so that's nice"

Oke doke thanks

"I had a student in my office in tears because she was being kicked out of a sports team because she refused to drink until she was basically unconscious"
Could the university intervene and insist such 'requirements' of university clubs are discontinued? Do universities ever do that?

How do you view pre-u's (not sure how to write the plural of pre-u!)? Ds is doing 2 A levels and 2 pre-u's. He is predicted an A and a B in the A levels and M1 in each of the pre-u's. The courses he is looking at are mostly asking for ABB and one for AAB. Does this sound like we are looking at the right level of courses for his predicted grades?

Thanks for the thread OP

Have a question regarding my nephew who is just about to start his A levels. He goes to a grammar and is very academic, but a FSM pupil who does NO extra curricular activities as he is needed in the family business all weekend (and evenings when busy). The school keep going on about how he has nothing to put on his UCAS form in terms of school activities and how this will penalise his chance of offers.

He is BME but lives in an expensive postcode as they privately rent from a friend at a third of market value.

What would your advice be for him? Do you have any way of knowing students are on FSM/benefits, and would this be more likely to get them a contextual offer?

This thread is so helpful. Thank you for starting it.

“RGs and those in top 35-ish are the only ones really worth going to.”

So a non RG university in the top 35 is worth looking at then? On another thread some of the top 35 universities DD is interested in looking at have been rubbished by some of the posters. She is looking at doing a medical related degree, having been unsuccessful at applying for medicine, then deciding that medicine isn’t for her. She is considering options like medical physiology and therapeutics, orthoptics or diagnostic radiography among others. How would she word a personal statement if she ends up being interested in more than one type of course?

What other online resources should she look at when deciding which universities to apply to, given that league tables don’t give a very accurate picture?

Also, DD is taking a year out to do some voluntary work, get some work experience and (hopefully) learn to drive. She will use the extra time to decide what she really wants to do. How do admissions tutors view gap years like this?

@lastnightidreamtofpotatoes - personally, I'd suggest that he puts that in his statement, mentioning that he's helping support his family, highlighting the skills that he's gained and their applicability. So basically, flag it up as a positive.

Unfortunately, the metrics are quite crude when it comes to capturing background, as op has said, so he's unlikely to get a contextual offer based on what you've said. The only possibility would be for his school to bring it up directly, which sometimes works - at least, based on where I've been Admissions. When I was at Oxbridge, I'd get a number of heads ringing me every year about students, less but still a fair few in the RG and in post 92, there were three altogether - so it often depends on the stakes, and how much the school is willing to use their capital to intervene.

@LoniceraJaponica, post 92 tend to do the more applied type of subjects your daughter is looking at very well. As well as the overall results, look especially at staff-student ratio (you want this to be low) and the employment rate on graduation for the course - even better if it's divided into work types, so you can see whose degree is getting them into relevant jobs (otherwise, it could just be students who have made their part time retail jobs full time - which is great for them, but too many of these indicates a lack of immediate employability)

Lastnight My DD didn't really have many extra curricular activities to put on her personal statement. She didn't have a weekend job, no big hobby, just family holidays and had learnt to scuba dive. She was busy studying most of the time, as she did 4 subjects in the 1st year, dropped one 2nd year but added Further Maths.

I can't remember exactly what she wrote on her personal statement (she's away so can't access) but it didn't seem to make a difference, she got 5 offers from good unis, most of which were Russell Group.

Thank you hefzi and bagel.

I suppose then my next question is that how much weight is given to 'member of school chess/choir/debating club?'

lastnight

I’m not sure what your nephew’s family business is. Here are some real life extracts from young people in my family who have worked in family food business and gone on to study and work in different areas. I think you can describe how working in a family business has given you useful knowledge and experience for any subject or career. For your nephew I would want to point out that he has successfully balanced studying with the commitment to the family business.

“My experience of work includes a family business and xxxxx. Through these experiences I have developed excellent communication and customer service skills. I have managed to provide high quality service even in difficult situations. I have been able to take responsibility, be highly organised and represent organisations professionally.”

Preparing and cooking produce
• Serving customers
• Dealing with suppliers
• Ensuring requirements of food hygiene regulations, consumer rights act and sale of goods act are always met
• Maintaining a high standard of customer service even when customers are challenging

Awareness of tax, National Insurance and VAT frameworks for small businesses.

lastnight in all honesty, not much, particularly at Oxbridge/RG - more, perhaps, if it's something external to school, but more important is the context. Some applicants list their ec activities but don't show their relevance to their application - that does nothing to boost their chances!

As Peggy says, in the case of the individual you were asking about, it will be more beneficial to see that he can relate work to time management skills, responsibility, self-discipline etc That's what will make his application stand out against the Caledonian Society treasurers and gap year voluntourists etc

My DP and I did not go to university, we were bright but decided to work and travel for five years instead. I have no clue about the whole system our DD has Asperger syndrome and is very intelligent, too in maths etc but reading all this thread about clubs and confidence, would she struggle to get accepted? She lacks social skills and does no clubs at school.

Top not too

our DD has Asperger syndrome and is very intelligent, too in maths etc but reading all this thread about clubs and confidence, would she struggle to get accepted? She lacks social skills and does no clubs at school.

No. Absolutely not. (That was my concern about this thread tbh - that it implies all the private school kids have bucket loads of extra curriculars which give them an advantage, which then has to be mitigated for the state school kids.)

The reality is that for the vast majority of courses at the vast majority of universities, extra-curricular activities are irrelevant, PS aren't really read, and, to be honest, contextual offers aren't often made. Applicants are often accepted if they drop a grade however.

(My dd did bucket loads of extra-curriculars - I spent my life taxiing her to and from orchestra, voluntary work, paid work, Guides, DofE etc etc - 13 activities a week I once counted. NONE of them were even mentioned in her PS )

I’m an academic in an RG university, have been for nearly 30 years. I would reinforce what tichy has said. All universities opearate differently. In my part of my university we pay no attention to extra curricular activities, and don’t routinely read personal statements. We do make contextual offers; all the information you need about this is in the prospectus or can be discussed with the admissions team. The important thing is to get information specific to the university that interests you. Anecdotes about other places will probably confuse and mislead.

We're a British family living in Ireland so not doing GCSEs/Alevels.

My DC want to go to university in UK, are their options better if they were to return to UK for Alevels or are Irish qualifications equally well received?

Also mmy son despite having a music scholarship at school did no clubs at all other than compulsory helping in a local primary school and it does not seem to have held him back either getting into university and in terms of fitting in once there. Some people are just more "joiners" than other people. Just get high grades.

And very good advice above. (I am at the end of the process with the last 2 of my 5 now about to start year 2 of university - time certainly flies).

Do be realistic. A nice young student has sent me their details today and I can't help them but really someone ought to tell them they need to change career plans. (I don't have the heart to do so).

My OH has been accepted to do post grad study at a RG University. They completed their undergrad distance learning and I can see they are having a wobble about going and fitting in to a RG uni as they are from a very working class background, a mature student and didn't do their undergrad at a "proper" university.

Any tips to help avoid the culture shock people talk about? Anything that will help immerse them in red brick university life? Especially given what you said earlier about students from different socio-economic backgrounds tending to fare quite differently.

My dd is awaiting her A level results. She is passionate about her subject. It is not a school subject so she has done all the finding out about it herself. She has an offer from a good university (RG for what it's worth, though it was a university centuries before RG was thought of) which has an international reputation in her subject.
When people ask what she can do with it job wise (once we have explained what it actually is) she can name some careers it leads to but actually all she wants is to be an academic and continue to study it forever.
How realistic is it to aim at an academic career?
She has quite complex disabilities is that likely to hold her back?

How much weight do you place on predicted grades especially as AS exams no longer taken ? DC at an OK comp school in OK area who are not very aspirational for their students. They don't see aiming at RG very important and tend to under predict grades and err on caution. It is causing DC to doubt applying if his predicted grades are not the same as usual offer. Thanks

I think the problem with saying evreyone shoudl apply for RG or not botehr is a problematical one. You seem sensitive to elitism but that jars.

DS1 may get 3Cs (or even BCC/ BCD). He is a bit unmotivated and unaspirational (typicl summer born boy) and very reclusive. Uni may not be right for him but he does have a fascination with Middle Eastern politics and terrorism (don't worry : I have had Prevent training!) and has not one practical or vocational bone in his body. I am trying to steer him towards War (or Peace! depends on hippiness of university!) and York St John, for exmaple, fits within his grade profile and is in a not too overwhelming location, which I know well (having been to 'proper' York : once not RG by the way and considered a top university!). His one criteria seems to be going somewhere with a lower league football team to support...

Are you really suggesting he shouldn't bother? I don't see what other avenues there are for students like him...

Thanks for the thread!

btw I just advised a student to remove all her stuff about eating disorders and anxiety from her personal statement and now feel I was wrong. Is there another place it should go? It just felt a bit wrong there.

Apologies for typos : spellchecker has disappeared now Windows 10 has been forced on to laptop.

I think the admissions process differs depending on institution. I've worked somewhere where they literally let any man and their dog in, its all about getting bums on seats. I've worked at other places where the bar is higher. I find Firsts and 2.1s get handed out too easily now compared to my dinosaur years. There is very much a culture of pandering to students demands no matter how ridiculous.

Again I'm not generalising this to all places and all students. But it is a problem.

OP I think you are based at a more discerning institution with regards to academic ability.

I am thinking about doing a secondary PGCE next year, my local university is low on the league tables. Does it matter so much at PGCE level?

Thanks joshchan for this thread really helpful and informative.
Wanted to ask, leading on from something you said earlier about going to atleast the top 50 establishment on university league table.
Do you think this applies to Masters applications aswell?
Do you advise wether to go to the local uni that is lower less prestigious than undergraduate university attended for masters. Or go to higher ranking university on the league table. Just don't know wether master degree courses have the same kind of importance placed on them in terms of ranking and reputation.
Finally do employers care where your masters was from?
TIA