I'm a university admissions tutor (make decisions about who to give offers to).. AMA

[JoshChan]

Ooh, do you have any nightmare parents stories?

Does having a Duke of Edinburgh or NCS award on a personal statement influence your offer?

If predicted grades are way above your standard offer, do you even read the personal statement?

Do you think too many young people go to university now?
And can you spot a child who will struggle with Uni life?

thanks!

Same question as redfairy

Ooh, do you have any nightmare parents stories?
Absolutely loads. Lots of emails/calls from parents demanding to know why their child wasn't made an offer and then nearly having heart failure when I tell them we're not eve able to confirm whether or not their child applied because of privacy and data protection.

The number of parents who call and email on their children's behalf to inquire about the course is absolutely staggering. It's always quite ironic that we then often receive applications being very verbose about how driven, motivated and independent that student is.

Does having a Duke of Edinburgh or NCS award on a personal statement influence your offer?
It can do. I'd say it's much more about communicating what these kind of awards have given the student and what that will bring their degree rather than just saying "I did this thing". Lots of applicants will have similar types of awards so its about making the award/scheme count but also including it in a personal statement as part of a wider narrative as to why the student is someone we'd want in our classroom

If predicted grades are way above your standard offer, do you even read the personal statement?
Yes, we read every personal statement. It's very unlikely that in this situation the personal statement would stop me making an offer but if the student wrote something very strange or which didn't feel right in there, I might think twice.

Do you think too many young people go to university now?
Yes, most definitely. I hate the way it's become the "default" route in life and success in education comes to define a young person's worth almost entirely. It's really sad and, I think, at the heart of the crisis in young people's mental health. I would like to see many more students coming to university later in life, after some experience and knowing what they want to do with their life/career/degree. I think this would also make universities a nicer place to study and work.

And can you spot a child who will struggle with Uni life?
I should say I work at a very prestigious RG university so when you say "university life", I'm talking about a very particular type of university life. But sadly, yes. You can see this in the initial applications sometimes and it almost directly maps onto social class/school type/socio-economics. Students from lower socio-economic groups don't have as much confidence/assurance in their applications and don't speak in the same "language" as their counterparts from higher socio-economic groups. I know these students will struggle as university life demands confidence and self-assurance. With my academic hat on, I can also spot the students who will struggle when I meet them in person too. I try and give them all the support I can (being from a poorer background myself, I completely understand their experiences) but there's only so much I can do.

How do you feel about the knowledge that the BME attainment gap begins in the admissions process with a lower proportion of BME students accepted compared to white students?

I assume you make more offers than you have places, by what percentage?
Do you have courses in clearing?

What percentage of applicants come from outside UK and Europe?

How do you feel about the knowledge that the BME attainment gap begins in the admissions process with a lower proportion of BME students accepted compared to white students?
It makes me incredibly sad.
There are a number of layers to this. Firstly, at my RG university we just don't see adequate numbers of BME students applying. I really resist the idea that this is about "aspirations"- it's everything to do with structural racism, socio-economics and the culture of elite education. However, many RG universities seem to think this lack of BME applicants can be addressed by holding admissions events in South London schools and putting a friendly face (along with a BME student helper) on the desk.
In my admissions role, I have the capacity to make "contextual" offers which means that students from non-traditional backgrounds (including BME students) can be made offers even though they have weaker applications- we see no difference in overall attainment between those made "contextual offers" and "standard offers". I use this to its full advantage but the culture of elite universities is still problematic and when BME students come for things like visit days, they see a posh, white environment and are put off.

I assume you make more offers than you have places, by what percentage?
We tend to make 4-5 offers for every available place.

Do you have courses in clearing?
Some courses at the University are in clearing but not all.

What percentage of applicants come from outside UK and Europe?
Quite a high number of applicants but many don't have the language qualifications needed to receive an offer. On my course, I would say about 20% of offers made are to international students but other courses make a much higher proportion of their offers to international students (esp. Business Studies type courses).

Thanks Josh - great thread.

Do you feel that universities are institutionally racist? Taking in to account movements like Rhodes Must Fall and that fact that despite widening participation efforts the elite universities are still favourable towards private school kids from white middle class backgrounds it seems?

Thanks - thoughtful answer. I to think things need to change on a systemic level.

I've just applied for uni. 2 years ago I started a particular course. I'm a mature student and was a bit naive thinking I'd fit in nicely. It was a total shock, struggled to meet people and felt totally isolated. I gave up and left after a year with no grades.

I've applied to do the same course and am actively already attempting to include myself....I am doing a 3 day mature student event and I am attending all the open days offered. I'm determined as this feels like my last shot.

I know you can't tell me if I will be offered a place but as it's through clearing I am still waiting for the confirmation. Will they even consider me or have I ruined my chances?

Do you feel that universities are institutionally racist? Taking in to account movements like Rhodes Must Fall and that fact that despite widening participation efforts the elite universities are still favourable towards private school kids from white middle class backgrounds it seems?
It's very hard to admit to being part of an institution which is "institutionally racist" but, yes. It's, in part, to do with the history of elite universities in the UK:

1. lots of universities have historic links with racist people/institutions/founders which is hard to break free from
2. curricula are dominated by posh, white men because they were the only ones who, i the past, had the opportunity to make the discoveries and write the foundational works on which so many disciplines are based. Again, this is very hard to break free from
3. BME students are massively under-represented which, as I said above, is a complex issue which top universities aren't taking as seriously as they need to. They will only start to take it seriously when there's money at stake.
4. BME lives/values/cultures are invisible and not valued at elite universities through everyday culture. For example, Caribbean food is only served on "theme" days like world food day or during BHM.

Wow. Every single point there I agree with. I also work at an elite university, I'm glad that you see what I see on a daily basis.

Aside from all that though, what's the best thing for you about working in HE?

What's your subject?

I've just applied for uni. 2 years ago I started a particular course. I'm a mature student and was a bit naive thinking I'd fit in nicely. It was a total shock, struggled to meet people and felt totally isolated. I gave up and left after a year with no grades.
I'm really sorry you had this experience. That's really shit. Mature students can have a tough time fitting in because I think the younger students are a bit intimidated and don't really know what to say to mature students. I'd advise you to get involved with the mature students association and join any other societies which are of interest to you too. FWIW, academics fucking love mature students, always so much more hardworking and engaged

Will they even consider me or have I ruined my chances?
Nope, you haven't ruined your chances at all. Whatever's happened in the past in terms of applications/drop-outs/deferrals won't officially "count" as part of this application - it's a whole new application IYSWIM. Keeping everything crossed for you

Thank you, good advice. (I reckon I’ll be one of those parents )

Aside from all that though, what's the best thing for you about working in HE?
There are a few things. I'm well-paid and I have a huge amount of freedom over my time and my work. I also absolutely love working with brilliant students. When you supervise a great dissertation or work with a brilliant PhD student, it's really refreshing and hugely invigorating. In the case of undergraduates, these stand-out students are very much the minority but when you find one they're awesome

What's your subject?
I'm in the social sciences

How good do you think you and your colleagues are at avoiding unconscious prejudice (eg making negative judgements because of certain regional accents or markers of social class)?

I reckon I’ll be one of those parents
Most of the pushy parents are okay (as I said, just a bit weird to receive applications being verbose about a students' independence and enthusiasm when their parent has been the one doing most of the corresponding!). It's the ones who try to bribe you, who threaten to sue you, or even who as you out on a date that are the worst offenders. All true

How good do you think you and your colleagues are at avoiding unconscious prejudice (eg making negative judgements because of certain regional accents or markers of social class)?
I'm heavily accented and from working class roots so regional accents and markers of lower socio-economic classes are only ever good for me, personally .
Working in the social sciences, I think most of my colleagues are very aware of structural inequality and unconscious bias and avoid at all costs. We've not only had very extensive (and excellent) training but it's part of the fabric of what we do every day.
However, some of the things I hear from other departments in the University make me want to weep - unconscious bias against particular groups of students is, I think, a very serious problem.

JoshChan thank you so much! I've been a worrying wreck all week. I'm really looking forward to starting. It's a great time of the year to do this thread and I'm sure you will get plenty of questions over the next few days .