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AMA

I'm Jewish AMA

337 replies

Bobbiepin · 07/07/2018 21:01

Just that really, brought up (relatively) orthodox if that makes a difference.

Please note, I have an opinion on the situation in the Middle East but I don't believe that Zionism is a part of Judaism and don't really want this to turn into a discussion over Israel.

Also, I can answer to my knowledge of the faith and my experiences, others may have differing understanding and wouldn't agree with my opinion.

OP posts:
bananafish81 · 11/07/2018 07:56

Also worth nothing noting that a significant amount of fertility pioneers are Jewish. There are loads of Jewish fertility Drs (because there are loads of Jewish Drs!) and leading pioneers in technological advances in fertility medicine include Lord Robert Winston (who wrote a book about science and faith, as an observant Jewish), and Prof Simon Fishel, off the top of my head.

bananafish81 · 11/07/2018 07:57

*observant Jew! Damn you autocorrect!

GorgonLondon · 11/07/2018 07:59

sunshine I was looking at their website the other day! We will be applying to secondary in a few years.

My husband is not Jewish, are there any mixed faith families at the school?

Also,if there are more Jewish applicants than places, how do they decide offers?

bananafish81 · 11/07/2018 08:00

@sunshinewithabitofdrizzle I've got my cousin's daughter's Bat mitzvah party weekend after next - she and her sister both go to JCoSS. I wonder if they know your DD! Grin

Bobbiepin · 11/07/2018 08:03

@bananafish81 if it wasn't for the implied anonymity of MN, do you not think we would have figured out our friends in common yet?

OP posts:
Xenia · 11/07/2018 08:28

WettheVet just expressed a fairly common view amongst some people of who is a jew or a muslim or a Catholic etc. in all grounds you get parts of that group who think they are right and others with a different view and others who say anyone can self declare anything. The different views are not the problem. It is when people start killing each other because those others are apostates or not the true version of Islam or Christianity or when Protestants kill Catholics (we had a lot of that here in the past and vice versa) then it's an issue. It seems to me there is much less of that currently in Judaism rather than just polite disagreement about who is a jew and who is not so that's all very good and peaceful and helping let everyone live in harmony.

sunshinewithabitofdrizzle · 11/07/2018 08:30

@GorgonLondon lots of mixed faith families. As long as one parent is Jewish it's fine, and doesn't have to be the mother.

The application route has changed since dd joined in year 7 as there are no longer feeder schools but I'm not sure what the new rules are. I have a feeling that proximity to the school now plays a part. You can find out more info here: jcoss.org/admissions/year-7-admissions-2019-20

I've been very happy with the school. We've been visiting university open days over the last few weeks and my dd wants to do a creative course. The school has such good facilities for what she wants to do that they are even better than some of the university facilities we saw.

sunshinewithabitofdrizzle · 11/07/2018 08:33

@bananafish81 it's quite possible. dd was a prefect last year Grin

samG76 · 11/07/2018 09:20

Gorgon - We know dozens of families at JCoSS, but they all identify as Jewish. Given what you have told us, it might not be the best choice....

GorgonLondon · 11/07/2018 09:28

Sam I personally identify as Jewish 100% but my husband isn't and won't be converting.

We are unlikely to apply for a faith school anyway but I was just interested

GorgonLondon · 11/07/2018 09:28

I'm interested though in what it is I've said that makes you say that?

strictorth · 11/07/2018 10:17

@MakeItStopNeville Most people choose to vote for who their specific rabbi says, because we trust him. But sure, there are those that vote for who they want! Nobody will know...
There are quite a few organisations supporting couples with infertility- financially and emotionally.
I wouldn't find that offensive, although unless he goes full on with the rest of the clothing etc, he is not going to manage to blend in (if that's what he wants to do...) They cost a pretty penny though!

A poster mentioned converts- there is actually a commandment that instructs us to accept converts and to have extra sensitivity towards them. It is difficult to have an orthodox conversion, but once it is done- you are 100% accepted and 'part of us'.

TeaAddict235 · 11/07/2018 11:06

@Bobbiepin
I am in awe that against the many cultural oppression that Jews have had to experience over the centuries that they still have managed within the diaspora to hold onto the language, many aspects of the culture that make a people.

Do you think that it is the blessings promised to the children of Israel (e.g. in Joshua) which are still, despite the day to day prejudice that Jews experience, working over the Jewish peoples?

I do not live in the uk anymore, but as someone mentioned earlier the Jewish population is very small, less than 1% (not sure if that refers to a specific group, say religious over ethnic group) but in many other countries that I have lived and worked in (US, Germany, france) the Jewish population is referred to as a minority group. Yet relatively, despite the minority size, I sense that it is a vocal group. Why do you think that is? For example in comparison to The Chinese communities or Indian communities? I hope that this is not seen as offensive or goady. Apologies if it comes across that way. I have a great deal of respect for the Jewish community and believe that there is a lot to be learnt.

bananafish81 · 11/07/2018 11:26

I'll be honest, my experience of attitudes from orthodox to reform (and particularly reform converts) in some occasions has been particularly poor

As I mentioned, my DM undertook a Reform conversion: over a year of study, essays, evening classes at shul plus additional Hebrew classes (so 3 times a week after work plus weekend study and shul attendance), final assessments. The Rabbi said she was one of the most dedicated and learned students he had ever had

My father was raised in a non frum orthodox household - however his family were very close friends with the Rabbi of their congregation, the eminent Rabbi Felix Carlebach, as was the case with a number of other German Jewish refugees. He was my father's godfather, they would holiday together etc. However he and my grandfather had a falling out when he refused to attend my father's Reform wedding, because my father was marrying a convert. I believe the same happened at my brother's bris, although I believe he apologised afterwards and amends were made.

My paternal family remained very involved in that orthodox congregation - however for obvious reasons I grew up as a member of a Reform congregation. However when the United shul moved to shiny new premises (overseen by my uncle), the Rabbi asked my father if we would be joining the congregation. My father said that would be impossible as his family were not welcome there - to which the Rabbi said my family would always be welcome there. So although my mum and brother and I weren't formally members, there was an understanding that we could sit in the seats bearing the family name at Yom Tov, and my mother was very involved in the League of Jewish women, JNF fundraising, and a well regarded member of the Jewish community. She became quite good friends with the rebbetzin!

However a new rabbi took over this congregation who was a hard liner. So when my mother died, he refused to allow her to be buried in the family plot, because it was under the auspices of a United synagogue and she wasn't an orthodox Jew

The former Rabbi of that congregation was horrified, as he said there was no one in the community who would reasonably object to my mother, who was well liked and respected, being buried in the family plot, but his hands were tied. He came to the house before and after my mother's death. A Lubavitch rabbi who was a good friend of the family came to the house to bless her before she died, and the morning she died he came over to the house to bless her as my brother and I were lying either side of her body waiting for the funeral directors to collect her. He was not permitted by United synagogue law to partake in her Reform funeral service in any way - he broke with the law to walk with us from the ohel to the grave. They both believed compassion was more important than man made rules.

A local Sephardi rabbi had some choice words about the hard line taken by the rabbi who refused to allow my mother to be buried in the family plot (because 'my congregation need to know they're buried with other Jewish people') - he said that there were people buried in that section of the cemetery who weren't even Jewish!

We had 3 orthodox rabbis all trying to persuade the Rabbi to change his mind, but he refused

We purchased a plot through the reform synagogue where my family were members, and my father will be buried there with her - sadly not with the rest of his family, because man made rules deemed that she wasn't Jewish enough.

bananafish81 · 11/07/2018 11:33

@sunshinewithabitofdrizzle haha very possibly! Her girls are 15 and 12 - there will be a lot of JCoSS pupils tearing up the dancefloor I imagine 

@Bobbiepin I'm a bit rubbish at the 'Do you know....?' game, because I was never really much involved in the Jewish social scene - I didn't go on Israel tour, I didn't really mix in the Jewish crowds very much. Plus I'm from oop north so don't know that many people from norf London. Still, you never know!

Though ironically it turned out that my SIL had her nose done by the same surgeon as I had (and her mum also). I think he did the nose jobs for half of NW England! Grin

thatoneagain · 11/07/2018 11:58

Hi. I've found this thread fascinating. I worked for a while with quite a few rather orthodox jewish people and was always interested to hear about their celebrations etc (and to sample some of the food they brought in for everyone!).

There was one thing that I never felt comfortable asking about though. Some of the men refused to shake hands with a woman for religious reasons but never said specifically what the reasons were. In our business we had to meet a lot of other business people so it often led to an awkward moment when all the men shook hands and then a female professional would offer her hand and be told no. I have to say that I felt rather conflicted about this since I believe in personal and religious freedom and also equality of the sexes. What is the reason behind this and how do you (as a jewish woman) think this fits with equality in the work place?

Ohyesiam · 11/07/2018 12:07

@strictorth hi, thanks for putting yourself up for AMA. I’ve been learning g about the groups and lineage In judaism from my BIL, but I’ve been meaning to ask him where Hasidic Jews fit in with the whole Cohen/ Levi thing. As far as he’s told me the Ashkenazi and Shefadi groups came about later, butwjere doge your branch ( for wasn’t of a better word)fit in?
Apologies in advance for any clumsy wording through my ( diminishing) ignorance, I really don’t want to cause any offence.

sunshinewithabitofdrizzle · 11/07/2018 12:29

@thatoneagain observant Jewish men don't touch any women that are not their immediate family (wives, children, siblings, parents and grandparents). I wasn't sure the rationale either so just looked it up and it seems it's because touching is considered a precursor to sexual relations. It seems extreme but so do a lot of the things they do I think.

GorgonLondon · 11/07/2018 12:37

I always heard that it was to do with menstruation. Menstruating women are taboo (can't be touched) and so, rather than asking every woman if she's on her period, it's safer to just avoid physical contact completely.

It's only pretty strictly orthodox that follow this though.

GorgonLondon · 11/07/2018 12:39

ohyes the hassidic Jews are a religious subgroup (distinguished by beliefs and practices) while Ashkenazi and Sephardi are ethnic subgroups (distinguished by genetics and regional origin).

I believe that almost all hassidim are Ashkenazi as it originated in Poland in the 18th/19th century.

bananafish81 · 11/07/2018 12:50

Wondering if any other Ashkenazi Jews on this thread are from German Jewish stock?

Like many British Jews, my family now have dual German - British citizenship as we discovered after the referendum that we were eligible for German citizenship, because of grandparents whose German citizenship was stripped from them by the Nazis on the basis of their religion

Descendants of Jewish refugees seek German citizenship after Brexit vote
German authorities report twentyfold increase in applications for reserved citizenship from people living in UK

My great-grandparents died in the Holocaust but now I want German citizenship
After the Brexit referendum, British writer Natasha Walter was urged by her mother to apply for German citizenship. In revisiting the wartime experiences of her family, the fragile state of present-day Britain became painfully clear

British Jews, German Passports review – it can be hard to let go of the past
For the British descendants of Jews who fled Nazi Germany, the decision to apply for a German passport is a complex one – as this poignant documentary revealed.

TickledOnion · 11/07/2018 13:52

Great thread OP.

@sunshinewithabitofdrizzle. I went to JFS from ‘89-‘96 when it was in Camden. When were you there?

@strictorth I have frum relatives in London and Gateshead. I’ve always wanted to know how they financially support their large families. My female cousins don’t earn as they have so many children to look after and their husband are scholars. So who pays the bills?

DreamingofSunshine · 11/07/2018 13:55

I love this thread! I'm a non practicing Jew who grew up in NW London Smile

I don't think I can add much of value except to say that not all Jews support Israel, despite the assumption (looking at my racist ex-colleagues)

sunshinewithabitofdrizzle · 11/07/2018 14:05

@TickledOnion I left in 1990 so we did overlap. I was only there for 6th form. I moved to the UK in 1988 from elsewhere so went straight into 6th form.

Xenia · 11/07/2018 14:06

Tickled, some are being caught by the benefits cap and presumably the no benefits for your third child and more. Some of us will have watched the lovely programme about some hassidic jews moving to Convey Island because property is so expensive now in Stamford Hill. I think so of the women do have to work actually and look after the large families whilst the men pray. (These are just hassidic jews however).

Interesting stuff I just found:

"Jews represent 0.5 per cent of the UK population. They are the fifth largest religious community in the UK after Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs.

There are 54,084 Jews living in the London Borough of Barnet accounting for one in five (20.5%) of all Jews in England and Wales.

Three out of every five UK Jews live in Greater London."

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