I'm Jewish AMA

[Bobbiepin]

Just that really, brought up (relatively) orthodox if that makes a difference.

Please note, I have an opinion on the situation in the Middle East but I don't believe that Zionism is a part of Judaism and don't really want this to turn into a discussion over Israel.

Also, I can answer to my knowledge of the faith and my experiences, others may have differing understanding and wouldn't agree with my opinion.

Xenia a week sounds perfectly sensible, unfortunately all the non Jewish funerals I've been to (a fair number) have been a minimum of 2 weeks, often 3+, even when people have been ill in hospital for some time beforehand. It was the case with my husband's grandmother and it was an awful time for him and his family.

I’ve always wondered how uk Jews feel about the way that some (mainly American) Jewish seem to play up / emphasise stereotypes.

Personally I don't mind it. I know its meant in jest, it's a laugh and hopefully people know we aren't all like that. There is an element of truth to it, which is why its funny but like most things in comedy it is exaggerated to comedic effect. You could say the same about other groups, I've certainly seen Black comedians exaggerate a Nigerian accent or an Indian comedian poking fun at Indian parents (even in the Big Bang theory, thinking about it). I'm sure there are people who dislike it, with all comedy, it won't be to everyone's taste.

@xenia I missed your comment earlier, I'm sorry for your losses. I agree with @gorgonlondon, a week seems reasonable and I'm pleased you found comfort in being able to arrange those things. I'm sure you've read my comments regarding burials above, but just to add, the speed in which we bury people is due to respect for the person in desert times. If not buried immediately, the body would decay quickly which is unpleasant and distressing for all involved. It's a tradition that is no longer necessary for those reasons but brings comfort for the family. It is also helpful to do it quickly as the body should never be left alone.

I'm an Israeli Jew waves My grandparents immigrated from Europe after the war. I live in NE England now. If anyone has any specifically Israeli-Jew questions I'd be happy to help !

I have to say I consider myself part of the Jewish race as opposed to just the religion. Yes people can convert to the faith, but you cannot convert to the lineage and I tend to just nod and smile along at people who call themselves Jewish but are converts. I understand that will be an unpopular opinion but I want to be honest.

Great AMA.

I'm Jewish but consider being Jewish as my identity rather than my religion as I'm not observant (despite the fact that I sent my dd to a Jewish school). I would probably say I'm athiest if anything. But my extended family do celebrate the festivals and some keep kosher and we (very) occasionally go to shul (mostly for the social aspect of seeing friends and family). I live in North London in a quite Jewish area and although I don't visit the kosher restaurants and shops we have locally, I quite like knowing they're there and that there is a community around me.

Re Israel and Zionism, I've never been to Israel and have no desire to. I do have family that live there but have no strong Zionist feelings myself. I think the whole Palestinian situation is awful from a political standpoint and I wish there was some way for there to be peace, but can't see how.

I am very pro Israel by the way. My grandparents had nowhere to go after they survived the camps. USA and Britain were only allowing a small amount of immigrants through (despite what the USA like to proclaim about their immigration records over the years!) and Germany and Poland were desecrated by the war. Their families were all dead, houses burnt or bombed down, family businesses destroyed and liquidated. The Germans and polish still hated them, their neighbours had left them to be taken by the nazis! Would you want to live amongst people who did that to you? Most of the world hated the Jews, really. So what else to do? It was time to grab our own corner of the world where we could be Jewish without persecution for the first time in... well, ever. We will get there eventually. They try every few decades but they can't kill us off, and now we have our own state which our kids are raised to protect and serve. I'm confident for our future and pleased my grandparents spent their later years in relative safety surrounded by their own.

I agree and disagree with Wets

I consider being Jewish means different things to different individuals - it's both a faith, a culture and a people

I am from a Jewish lineage, and am genetically Jewish. I consider myself culturally Jewish. I was raised in the Jewish faith but now consider myself atheist by belief.

My mother was not born Jewish but converted. She was far more religiously observant, more knowledgeable about Jewish scripture and teachings, and far more invested in Jewish culture than anyone else in my family who was born Jewish.

Yet halachically the orthodox religion would not consider her Jewish, and ergo neither me

My halachically orthodox cousin can barely read Hebrew, and because she's female wasn't allowed to participate in shul - her bat mitzvah was basically a party with no actual meaningful religious element. Whenever I attend an orthodox shul, most of the congregation spend more time chatting and the rabbi shushing people than anything I'd ever experienced growing up in the reform tradition

I can read Hebrew, led the Shabbat morning service at shul and read from the Torah at my Bat Mitzvah. And read from the Torah on subsequent occasions. At the various reform shuls I have attended the congregation are active participants in the service (both men and women).

Yet I am considered not Jewish whilst my cousin is.

So it's complicated!

Wets I do think that’s offensive. I am Jewish and know lots of converts (I only know they are converted because I am involved in my Shul) not sure why you think they are any less Jewish than you. Many people over the years have converted and chances are you have some in your “lineage”. I know I do although it is not talked about openly.

My daughter is not a convert (obviously) and is in fact descended from rabbis but has light hair, blue eyes and is quite light skinned and gets all sorts of offensive comments from both Jews and non-Jews. It saddens me that people think in stereotypes like that. It also saddens me that so many people have replaced Jewish religion and culture with cheesy American stereotypes.

But that’s life I suppose. No one religion or culture is immune from racism or stupidity. But I am Jewish and I am not foolish or intolerant. And I don’t like fish balls.

What happens if rules are broken such as light switches being operated on Shabbat? I know someone who was once involved in hosting a Bar Mitzvah in a building which was full of lights operated by automatic sensors, which were difficult to disable; great care had to be taken to cover up the sensors, to make sure they did not activate accidentally.

Letsgo - what do you think happens? A big bolt of lightning comes down? You just try not to do it again.

There is a specific prohibition in Jewish law on looking down on converts. Personally I have never thought of doing so - it's a tough process and I can only admire those who get through it.

After seeing what is required to convert into Judaism I couldn't possibly look down on a convert. They went through all that work and effort for something that I was born into (all instances of white privilege aside for now). I'm sorry not sorry but I have no respect for anyone who believes they are "better" than another because they were born a certain way.

@zsazsajuju I will, however judge you for not liking fish balls. Seriously? Not even the fried ones?

@sunshinewithabitofdrizzle I find your post very interesting. You hit all the hallmarks of (NWL) Jew which I've always seen as the more observant than the lesser spotted South London Jew. Maybe it's the community belonging and the appearance of observance. I'm curious as to what school - there's a difference between JFS, Yavneh and Hasmo. Am I close?

What happens if rules are broken such as light switches being operated on Shabbat?

Very little. I'm sure some instances of Jewish guilt, some lesson learning for the children and a prayer to do better next shabbos. I'm sure the bigger transgressions will be focussed on during Yom Kippur and the individual would repent and pray for forgiveness.

@bobbiepin close on the school but not one of those, a newer one than those 3. I went to JFS myself (when it was still in Camden) but wouldn't have sent my dd there.

Hi I am strictly orthodox/ part of the hassidic community, so if anyone has any questions specific to this group I can try to answer...

@sunshinewithabitofdrizzle I'd need to do some digging then. Is she happy there?

@strictorth hi! Thanks for joining the conversation, I think lots of people will have questions. I've tried to give an understanding so far on the thread about the Hasidic community but please correct me if you disagree with anything I've put.

I've not really considered it before but how interesting is it that we are all descended from the same tribe, follow the same beliefs and yet have ended up with such varied outcomes. Makes you wonder...

@bobbiepin she's been very happy there, it's been great, got excellent GCSEs and she's in the 6th form now. As it's relatively new the facilities are excellent. The Head isnt Jewish, in fact he's an ordained Anglican minister I believe.

I know exactly the one you mean. I'm pleased she's happy. Out of interest, aside from it being a good school, how did the faith element play into your choosing it?

sunshine it's Immanuel, right?

....although come to think of it, that's probably not 'relatively new' any more! my year was the first cohort - although I didn't go there, I went to a non-faith school.

sunshine we probably live very near each other. I am a lot like you in many ways - also never been to Israel and no plans to do so. I have actually loved this thread as it's about being Jewish, rather than descending into wrangling about Israel.

I don't look down on converts, not at all. I don't see them as 'less Jewish', but they are 'differently Jewish'. I'm well aware that they are likely to be much more observant than I am. But the sense in which being Jewish is literally being part of a family, as in we are all closely genetically related - obviously they don't share that.

@Strictorth I would LOVE to ask you some questions! These are without judgement, Hassidism just completely fascinates me.

Firstly, do you feel comfortable block voting? Do you never want to just choose someone else to vote as the Rabbis would never know anyway.

Also, how do Hassidic couples cope with infertility, when having such huge families is part and parcel of your faith? Does it receive sympathy from your faith and community?

And, lastly, if my, completely not Jewish in the slightest, son fulfilled his ambition to own a Shtreimel, would that be considered offensive?! Obviously, I'm never going to let him get one...I would just love to hear a Hassidic person's view on it!

I do think this is a fascinating thread, by the way. I am an agnostic, lapsed C of E'r and the place I have found my ideal of a place of faith and worship is a US Jewish Reform church. Unfortunately, you have to pay to join so that ain't happening!

Is there a tendency to 'marry in' even amongst people who don't consider themselves to be practising?

I ask as I've been on some dates with some lovely fellas (who are Jewish and on the spectrum of belief) & as much as I fancy them I feel like things fizzle out when we talk about politics and religion (different religion, believing but not hugely practising, not looking to convert)

I totally get why people choose to settle with someone from a similar background - it's heaps easier and most people I know have - but as someone who has seen this happen some times I do wonder

And yes I know that other reasons can contribute to - not everyone you go out with is meant to be

Also, how do Hassidic couples cope with infertility, when having such huge families is part and parcel of your faith? Does it receive sympathy from your faith and community?

I'm not Hasidic but the nurses at my fertility clinic said they had a LOT of orthodox Jewish patients (they're in St John's Wood), though not sure about how many Hasidim

FWIW my fertility consultant is Jewish and he wrote a piece in a United synagogue shul newsletter about the Jewish position on infertility (not sure how far this applies to Hasidim though):

"The Jewish perspective on infertility is that treatment should always enhance the chance of increasing the family. There are three hala-chic principles that govern assisted conception. First, the commandments say ‘be fruitful and multiply’, second, the mitzvah of loving kindness, G’miluth hassadim, and third, family integrity.

In cases of personal suffering we are duty bound to practice the mitzvah of G’miluth hassadim, which originates in the verse ‘love thy neighbour as thyself’. We must always try and help a childless couple as long as no-one else is harmed by the treatment. In Jewish law domestic peace and the integrity of the family unit is very important. In the event of marital strife and for the sake of family harmony most fertility treatments are supported.

Be fruitful and multiply refers to populating the earth but there are restrictions. These are determined by the laws of marital restrictions in particular the laws of incest. Halacha does not permit indiscriminate multiplication of genetic offspring to enhance the increase in population. The law in this country focuses on the welfare of the unborn child and all treatments are governed by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) which issues a license to each fertility centre. Fertility treatment in the UK is determined by the parliamentary HFEA act of 1990 and therefore subject to English Law.

In conclusion, infertility is a common problem amongst most communities affecting one in six couples. Management involves taking a careful history followed by examination and detailed investigations to determine the cause or causes. It is important to treat the couple and offer appropriate support and counselling. Jewish law is supportive of most fertility treatments with three halachic principles governing whether treatment is allowed. Where possible, treatment should be supervised by fertility accredited specialists and in licensed fertility centres. Furthermore it is necessary to consult with a Rabbi beforehand to determine the halachic guidelines."

@gorgonlondon no, not Immanuel. Ok I'll come clean, it's JCoSS.

Faith really didn't play much part in the decision to send dd there. It was that or our local secondary school which is frankly crap. JFS was never an option for me and we're not frum enough for Yavneh, even though we live nearby. I wasn't interested in sending dd to a grammar school so wasvery happy to have the opportunity to send her to a new school with excellent facilities. It also helped that she was at a feeder primary school. She was as a normal comprehensive but very unhappy so I moved her to. Jewish primary in year 5 which was the best decision I could have made as her chances of getting into JCoSS were not great otherwise.

I do like the fact that is very all-inclusive of all sectors of Judaism. There are lots of options depending on whether you're United or Reform or Masorti etc. And apart from mandatory Jewish ed lessons (up to gcse) and Hebrew (can be dropped before gcse in favour of another language) nothing else is forced.