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AMA

I'm Jewish AMA

337 replies

Bobbiepin · 07/07/2018 21:01

Just that really, brought up (relatively) orthodox if that makes a difference.

Please note, I have an opinion on the situation in the Middle East but I don't believe that Zionism is a part of Judaism and don't really want this to turn into a discussion over Israel.

Also, I can answer to my knowledge of the faith and my experiences, others may have differing understanding and wouldn't agree with my opinion.

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samG76 · 10/07/2018 10:30

Makeitstop - Jewish law doesn't prevent carrying, just taking stuff from one town to the next, which was likely to constitute trading. The problem was that as people stopped living in walled cities, it became more difficult to work out where the town's dividing lines were. The rabbis, at the same time as prohibiting carrying generally, set out the circumstances in which it would be permitted, through building an eruv. So it's not right to say that an eruv is used to evade the law - it was built into the law in the first place.

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 12:27

Reform and liberal I think will be satisfied with a Jewish father. A reform rabbi once told me that after the Holocaust its silly to be that picky.

Reform don't, but liberal do

My mum converted to Reform before marrying my dad - Under Reform and liberal judaism I'm therefore considered Jewish. (If my Mum hadn't converted, Reform wouldn't consider me Jewish however)

Orthodox Judaism doesn't consider my Mum's conversion to have been valid, therefore they don't consider my brother or I to be Jewish

(I agree with the reform rabbi - Given I have family who were taken off to the concentration camps, I suspect that fascists would disagree and consider me to be Jewish)

If I wanted to marry in a Reform shul (to another Jew) then as long as I could show my parents' Ketubah (Jewish marriage contract) to prove my mother was Jewish, then I'd be allowed

I married out (in a Jew-ish Jewish humanist ceremony - i.e. the cultural traditions but with the G-d taken out, as I consider myself a Jewish atheist) but theoretically a hypothetical child of mine would still be considered Reform Jewish, even though DH isn't Jewish, because I could demonstrate that I'm Jewish by virtue of my parents' ketubah

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 12:39

Re: Cohanim, my father is the son of a Cohen. He's been at funerals and if the rabbi knows this fact, they have strong-armed him funerals to prevent him from getting near the grave / ohel as it's something to do with priestly descendants not being supposed to come in contact with the dead.

Needless to say he couldn't give a crap about any of the Cohen stuff (it's not our last name either), and the line ends with him because my brother isn't a Cohen as orthodox don't consider him Jewish (as my Dad married a Reform convert)

I got tested for the Ashkenazi Jewish diseases (not stictly necessary given I married out), and despite only one Ashkenazi parent, turns out I am still a carrier of one of the Jewish genetic diseases (Gaucher's disease)

Sadly I know 2 couples who are carriers of Tay Sachs and Canavans respectively, who have had multiple TFMR due to affected pregnancies. The charity Jnetics is doing great work about raising awareness and access to genetic testing within the Jewish community

Xenia · 10/07/2018 13:00

it is similar to other religions which are divided - one group thinking X is a true XYZ and another that that person isn't for specific reasons (marrying out etc). So I suppose it illustrates the fact there is no one objective definition of who is a Jew.

GeorgeIII · 10/07/2018 13:18

Is it true strict Jewish women shave their hair and wear wigs. I think I read that somewhere. I imagine they wear a type of hat when they take their wigs off to sleep.
I'm not sure what the reason was for this.

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 13:22

Very orthodox women wear wigs known as sheitels: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheitel

Paddington68 · 10/07/2018 13:44

Why is there so much security around a synagogue and yet I can just walk into a church?

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 14:09

The security is usually provided by the CST(Community Support Trust - a voluntary organisation provided by the Jewish community itself to provide security to synagogues, schools and community spaces

I'm assuming churches feel their security isn't threatened in the same way, so as to form a similar organisation / make similar provision

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 14:21

Re whether or not being Jewish is a race, certainly it can be an ethnicity - as the Ashkenazi Jewish genetic diseases indicate. You're unlikely to be a carrier of these diseases if you're a Sephardi or Mizrahi Jew, but much more likely to be a carrier if you are of Ashkenazi heritage

There are particular strains of BRCA that are almost exclusively found in the Ashkenazi community (sadly I have a friend who died from it), as well as diseases such as Tay Sachs, Canavans, Familial dysautonomia (I'm a carrier for Gaucher's disease)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MedicalgeneticssofJews

AlbusPercival · 10/07/2018 14:35

Banana fish, it’s a tricky thing isn’t it. My DS would not be considered Jewish because I’m not, but from the reading I have done the nazis would have considered him Jewish.

DH is an atheist Jew, so we are teaching DS about his culture but without any faith

GorgonLondon · 10/07/2018 15:09

Albus you are right. Halachically your children are not Jewish, but they would fail the 'Nazi test'. Sad

Possibly even true of your grandchildren (I'm not sure what % Jewish was the cut-off).

It's a depressing measure to use but also an important one to acknowledge.

We are the same as you, but with the sexes reversed (i.e. I'm an atheist Jew, DH is an atheist Methodist!) so our children are halachically Jewish, but my son is not circumcised.

bananafish yes, pretty much all Ashkenazi Jews are very very closely related. There was a population bottleneck in the not-too-distant past (will find link when I have a minute).

AlbusPercival · 10/07/2018 15:10

I think not my grandchildren as DFIL is also not Jewish.

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 15:31

Yep, I'm an atheist reform Jew, DH is an atheist - sadly we can't have children, but if we were lucky enough to have a son then I wouldn't push for him to be circumcised.

DH will happily join in with family dinners for the Jewish festivals - as our Seders are very irreligious and basically as PP describe 'they tried to kill us, let's eat!' It's very much culture and food rather than faith in my family - although I was raised going to Cheder (Jewish Sunday school), can read Hebrew, had a full Bat Mitzvah reading from the Torah (and subsequently did a reading at a Simchat Torah service the following year).

Our wedding was conducted by a Masorti rabbi who is willing to do interfaith Jewish wedding ceremonies - we had a chuppah, we circled each other, we had blessings over wine (using my Dad's Bar Mitzvah kiddish cup), DH wore a yarmulke, we had an interfaith ketubah (purely symbolic, no standing in Jewish law), DH stamped on a glass (& everyone shouted 'Mazal Tov!) - but because DH isn't Jewish it obv wasn't a Jewish wedding, and we had got legally married at the registry office the week before

GorgonLondon · 10/07/2018 15:45

bananafish I wonder if I know the rabbi! I was also raised Masorti.

Are you in north London by any chance?

Similar to you, I went to Cheder, can read Hebrew, and my family still have Seders - I suppose it's similar to the way lots of people celebrate Christmas even though they are not practising Christians.

Your wedding sounds lovely. We didn't have a wedding, just an absolute bare-bones registry office service without guests. (For lots of reasons)

Smurfie12 · 10/07/2018 16:00

I have loved this thread thank you so much OP. I live fairly close to a Jewish Community and see various men/boys wearing string/rope with knots in hanging from their trouser belt I think? would you be able to tell me why they wear it and whats the reasons behind the different amount of knots? Thanks

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 16:11

Gorgon very possibly! He's a north London rabbi - I found him on the internet (google 'jewish wedding rabbi uk' and he comes up!). We live in north(ish) London, but I grew up in Manchester, as a member of a reform shul there. I don't go to shul any more, just once a year for my mother's yahrzeit, to say Kaddish when they read her name out in the Shabbat morning service. I do it out of respect for her - because although she was a convert, she was far more observant and faithful than anyone else in our family. It's one of the reasons we had the Jew-ish wedding ceremony - although she wasn't alive to be there, she would have loved it. It's why when we were discussing the format of the ceremony, I was all for asking the rabbi to leave out the Sheva Brachot - as we had said we didn't want the word 'G-d' mentioned at any point during the service. DH said as long as it was in Hebrew and we didn't have to say anything ourselves, he thought we should keep it in, because it would have been really important to my mum. The rabbi was great - he adapted the final blessing for us, so that instead of 'May G-d bless you and keep you etc', he substituted the word 'life' -so it was 'May life itself bless you and keep you...'.

Our ketubah was hand made by the only female Sofer in the world!

Smurfie they're called Tzitzit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzitzit :)

bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 16:32

Also playing catchup re: Jewish burial practices - I was beyond grateful for these customs when my mother died. We didn't have to do anything - the synagogue made all the arrangements. All we had to do was drop in the green form to allow them to process the burial, everything else was done for us. I am so very glad that Jewish funerals are held so quickly, waiting in limbo between her death and burial would have been excruciating. Normally burials are within 24h - in her case this was 48h because she died on a Friday, and funerals can't be held on the Sabbath (but this gave family more time to make arrangements to travel). We didn't have to choose a coffin, or a funeral home, or music for the service (standard coffin, synagogue work with one, no music & a very simple service), we didn't have to organise a wake (no catering or similar required at a Shivah household - in fact it's the opposite, people bring the mourners food, so we ended up with tonnes of plates & bowls that we had no idea who they belonged to, because so many people brought us food - including fabled chicken soup - aka Jewish penicillin). The synagogue also organise Chevra Kadisha - someone to sit with the body so it's not left alone until burial.

A consecration ceremony is often held 6-12 months later to mark the headstone setting - usually for immediate family.

I found the Jewish mourning customs made a difficult time much less distressing than I imagine it might have been if we'd had to wait weeks before the funeral, or if we'd had lots of arrangements to make.

It's also Jewish custom to lay stones rather than flowers at a Jewish grave - so whenever I travel, if I can find a stone (great when going to pebbly beaches, less so in cities!) then I'll take it back with me, and leave at her grave when I go and visit her 1-2 times a year.

GorgonLondon · 10/07/2018 16:52

bananafish sorry to hear about your mother. I wish you long life.

I don't bother with most of the aspects of Judaism, but having married into a non-Jewish family and seen the (to be honest) awful experiences that they have every time someone dies, I am beyond grateful for 'the Jewish way of death'.

For all of the reasons you say - doing it quickly, no pressure to make the 'perfect' funeral or to personalise it, no agonising limbo, no one wondering if it's ok to contact you or not, the comfort of sitting shiva and people knowing when they can come round and what they should say, having everyone who cared about that person round you immediately, and for several days afterwards.

Plus the stone setting a year later, another opportunity to get together with everyone who cared for that person and to mark the end of the first year of mourning.

I've seen what my husband's family, and friends, go through when a non-Jewish person dies - weeks of waiting, wrangling over the details of funeral services, awkward limbo where no one knows if they shoudl contact you or will they be intruding... it seems to really intensify the pain and grief, rather than be comforting in any way.

Xenia · 10/07/2018 16:59

So sorry to hear about your mother. We (Christian) are mostly buried within 7 days actually. We have sadly buried our children's 4 grandparents in the last few years so had more than enough funerals, Catholic and C of E and I do think that week gives you a time to reflect, view the body if you want to, write a eulogy, give relatives time to fly in from wherever they are is not actually a bad thing; although clearly doing it quickly does suit some people. The distraction of arranging things yourselves we felt very comforting that we had that power and control and rights to organise.

Bobbiepin · 10/07/2018 17:06

Sorry everyone, had a busy day, I'll catch up as best I can.

@bananafish81 thank you so much for sharing, especially regarding your DM. Wish you long life (from your posts it sounds as though it has been some time since she passed, but still). Your wedding sounds wonderful. My DH and I had the full on big fat United wedding which was amazing but maybe not what we originally planned thanks to two rather excited mothers.

Is it true strict Jewish women shave their hair and wear wigs.

Religious Jewish women do wear wigs, referred to as sheitels but I've never met a woman who shaves her head for her sheitel. Some women may cut their hair short to make them more comfortable but I think this got exaggerated down the line somewhat.

Why is there so much security around a synagogue and yet I can just walk into a church?

The security is provided by the CST and sometimes with police support on particular holidays because of the threat risk due to anti semitism. There have been a number of attempted attacks on synagogues and they are targeted in a way that Churches aren't. If you wanted to have a look around a synagogue I'm sure it could be arranged (but be prepared to answer a bunch of questions why).

men/boys wearing string/rope with knots in hanging from their trouser belt I think?

This is called tzizit and is actually a vest with the strings & knots hanging from the four corners. They link to the Toroah scrolls and are used as a reminder to obey the commandments and perform mitzvot (good deeds).

Seders seem to be the uniting thing amongst all Jews. We still attend Seder with our families, even though they tend to disintegrate somewhere around daiyenu! DH once did one with his rather more frum cousin and they were there until 2am!

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bananafish81 · 10/07/2018 17:30

@Bobbiepin Thank you for your kind wishes. Your wedding sounds ace! Did you survive the Israeli dancing?! My brother genuinely thought he was going to die when he was being flung up in the air on a sheet.....because he's been at weddings holding the sheet, and hearing it start to rip! Grin

DH and I were at a United wedding a couple of years ago, and after the bentsching the band played Hatikvah, and then everyone stood up for the national anthem. DH was a bit bemused, asking 'why are we singing G-d save the queen at a wedding?!' I'd never really thought about it as weird - I had to think of why it was we did that! Similar reasons why there are prayers for the Queen and Royal family in the Shabbat service along with prayers for Israel, was my guess.

YY on the Seder - it's basically Jewish Xmas! There was a great Seder thread in Chat, equivalent of the Xmas threads around December

Someone posted this, which cracked me up:

"If we’d spent two whole weeks cleaning the house but not covered our entire kitchen in silver foil – dayenu.

If we’d covered our entire kitchen in silver foil but not bankrupted ourselves with the shopping – dayenu.

If we’d bankrupted ourselves with the shopping but not discovered after only two days that we now need to go and buy a lot more food – dayenu.

If we’d discovered we need to go and buy a lot more food but not sold all our whisky for a penny – dayenu.

If we’d sold all our whisky for a penny but not set ourselves alight when burning the chametz in the garden – dayenu.

If we’d set ourselves alight when burning the chametz in the garden but not spent seder with family we don’t like – dayenu.

If we’d spent seder with family we don’t like but not had a child who takes half an hour to coax into saying ma nishtana – dayenu.

If we’d had a child who takes half an hour to coax into saying ma nishtana but not had a frum cousin constantly chipping in with yet another interpretation when we all wanted to eat – dayenu.

If we’d had a frum cousin constantly chipping in but not had to hear how late our friends’ seders finished – dayenu.

If we’d had to hear how late our friends’ seders finished but not given ourselves horrendous constipation for eight days – dayenu.

If we’d given ourselves horrendous constipation for eight days but not gone on chol hamoed trips to zoos full of people we know – dayenu.

If we’d gone on chol hamoed trips to zoos but not spent the last days hunting for unbroken shemura matzah – dayenu.

If we’d spent the last days hunting for unbroken shemura matzah but not seen photos of our Facebook friends at their super-expensive Pesach resorts – dayenu.

If we’d seen photos of our Facebook friends at their Pesach resorts but not bought tickets for ‘Ashley Blaker: Strictly Unorthodox’ Off-Broadway – unforgivable."

Bobbiepin · 10/07/2018 18:08

The dancing was intense, you don't get a break when it's your wedding! Thankfully I was a lot fitter then but DH was a sweaty mess by the end. I managed to skip with my heels on too! Unfortunately the people holding my chair were slightly unbalanced in terms of strength and I almost got dropped!

You're totally right about Jewish xmas. It's definitely top for getting the family together. I saw the deyainu thing too, read it at this year's Seder and it went down a treat!!

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Hotpinkparade · 10/07/2018 18:44

OP, can you explain what you mean by ‘Cohen and Levi descendants’? Are these different branches of families? I know that many people in my paternal grandfathers family had the name Levi/Levy as a middle or surname - does this indicate something?

Bobbiepin · 10/07/2018 19:22

can you explain what you mean by ‘Cohen and Levi descendants’?

The Cohanim were the priests of Abrahamic times and were very highly regarded. The Levis were also very well respected and served the priests - were responsible for washing their hands and feet (more of a regal job than it sounds). Through genetic testing we can prove that all Cohens are descended from the same tribe. I'm not sure but I think the same can be said for Levis. This means as a Cohen my father I can trace my heritage back thousands of years. As for the surnames, not all Cohens/Levis have the name and not all that have the name are Cohen/Levi descendants.

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museumum · 10/07/2018 19:41

I’ve always wondered how uk Jews feel about the way that some (mainly American) Jewish seem to play up / emphasise stereotypes. You know the jokes about how all Jewish mothers behave this way or all Jewish families are like that... the standard comedy tropes?

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