I'm Jewish AMA

[Bobbiepin]

Just that really, brought up (relatively) orthodox if that makes a difference.

Please note, I have an opinion on the situation in the Middle East but I don't believe that Zionism is a part of Judaism and don't really want this to turn into a discussion over Israel.

Also, I can answer to my knowledge of the faith and my experiences, others may have differing understanding and wouldn't agree with my opinion.

Crikey bananafish what a story!

Tell us more, please!

Hi
Thanks for starting this thread, it is really interesting. I have alot of respect for the Jewish orthodox community. It takes huge amount of courage to be so visibly different from the rest of society.
I worked for sometime in Stoke Newington so would regularly come across people from the Haredi community and would always smile at them. I notice they never smiled back (even women). Is there something in the faith that doesn't allow them to smile back at people from outside the community?

SamG That's a very concise and illuminating summary.

Yes, very good Sam. It can be similar with other groups too - eg the poor old Roma wherever they go always seem to get a lot of criticism and worse.

Is contraception permitted in orthodox communities?

Contraception is permitted in orthodox communities but there is a mitzvah (commandment) to have children too. There’s talk of conception in the Talmud. Like many things in Judaism it’s complicated. But women (not men although this maybe depends on the community- in my relatives sect just women) can use contraception. The mitzvah is to have two children (boy and a girl) but desirable to have lots.

Mini - the orthodox would be very unlikely to accept you for conversion with a non Jewish spouse and children who won’t convert. The progressive sects may be more understanding. Although strangely enough the orthodox (at least certain sects) do believe that Jewish converts were always Jewish and always had a Jewish soul, just that they were born in a non Jewish body.

Contraception is allowed but only under certain conditions. Firstly barrier contraception is always forbidden as nothing should get between the man and woman in the mitzvah of sex (its a commandment to have sex on Shabbos).

Long term contraception like the coil or implant is also frowned upon but the pill for example works well in circumstances where it would endanger the mother's life to fall pregnant (including if her mental health would suffer greatly) or if she's just had a baby and another pregnancy would cause great physical stress and impact on the care of the baby.

@xenia religious custom has changed. Couples who marry now are advised by the rebbetzin to sign a pre nup which legally prevents the man from with holding a get from his wife. My DH and I have one. Initially he thought it was a silly idea but the rabbi really emphasised the importance of it.

@bananafish81 that's incredible. The amount of stories I hear of German Jews who fought in WW1 only to have their country and homeland turn on them is terrifying. I wonder what we would do if put in that position - believe I am British and protected or Jewish and at risk. I dread to think.

PPs have covered the roots of anti semitism so much more eloquently than I have and are totally right in stating that this originated well before the Holocaust. Since the diaspora, it is easy to target a people with no homeland, so to speak, but as we say at most festivals: they tried to kill us, we survived, let's eat!

@rainsim I don't believe there is anything that would prevent them smiling back, other than a fear (of sorts) of the unknowns of other communities, however I think @strictorth would be the best person to answer that question.

I agree with @Bobbiepin about our fear of outsiders to the community. I think this might be because most of us do not have much contact with people outside our community, so when we see anyone then we think that they are definitely antisemitic and want to get rid of us. This is because we all know our history of being persecuted, and not having contact with anyone outside of our community does not let us see that it is actually not like that. Not everyone that you see on the train wants to punch you...
Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I have explained that well, it's difficult to articulate. I do think it is slowly changing though.

Contraception use varies with each Hassidic group/ orthodox group. Amongs hassidim it is less used, but strict orthodox definitely use even long term contra such as the coil. The pill is more popular, because depo and coil etc often cause bleeding, which means husband and wife can't touch. Some rabbis encourage newlyweds to wait up to a year before trying to conceive in order to get to know each other properly first... Most rabbis agree that it is not healthy physically or mentally to have children too close, so they say to wait at least a year or more as neccesary. Some people don't speak to a rabbi about this and just assume contraception is totally forbidden.

Sex on shabbos is not an actual commandment, it is simply an extra special time for it. (we both just fall asleep as soon as we hit the pillow on friday night, so no chance of that happening...) However the Talmud and Shulchan Aruch discuss that there should be fixed days for having sex, and shabbos is the first recommended day.

I remember reading that after a period a woman is still considered 'unclean' for a further 7 days and then she has to go to a special pool to be bathed by women in the synagogue. Is this true, and if so is that not a lot of hassle?

Also are non Jews welcome/safe in Stamford Hill?

@lastnightidreamtofpotatoes yup another 7 days after the bleeding stops. An internal check is made to confirm that there is no blood. Then twice a day for 7 days again internal checks (unless you are sensitive, then only on first and last day). After those 7 long days al makeup and jewellery is removed, a thorough bath and shower is taken, and there is a ritual bath that we dip in a nuber of times and say a blessing.
It is a hassle, it becomes easier the longer you do it for. Although I think it worth the hassle, for the benefits.

Everyone is safe around Jews in England. Many Chassidic will be suspicious, as I have previously explained.

Who performs the internal check? Is it a self check or a synagogue woman?

When I said safe I didn't mean at risk of harm btw, more would the non Jew be stared at/made to feel under scrutiny. Also I read something about some sort of boundary around Stamford Hill that Orthodox Jews were not allowed to pass. Is that true?

Do you think more people in their 20's are becoming more orthodox? Why is this? I work with lots of families and now im used dealing with orthodox parents and im never surprised when their parents visit and are the opposite of orthodox and hardly religious but very culturally Jewish. Is it to do with finding a partner? I even have two good friends who have become more modest as theyve got older and they were both brought up in none religious households.

Why so many young couples moving to Israel as well as Borehamwood apparrt from the weather?

Contraception is permitted in orthodox communities but there is a mitzvah (commandment) to have children too. There’s talk of conception in the Talmud. Like many things in Judaism it’s complicated. But women (not men although this maybe depends on the community- in my relatives sect just women) can use contraception. The mitzvah is to have two children (boy and a girl) but desirable to have lots.

I have worked for quite a few years within Orthodox and no Orthodox communities. What i see mostly is a drive to have as many children as possible. I also observed quite a number of younger women married to men whom i perceived to be quite a bit older. I remember one young woman,she had that many kids running around the house being very loud, one in a pram and pregnant with another one that she seemed totally exhausted,,more of a drudge than a wife and mother.

Do you think that in some cases , and especially in Orthodoxy, many people feel railroaded into certain roles because the community is tight ,they know nothing else and can therefore not make choices of their own for their lives?

When I said safe I didn't mean at risk of harm btw, more would the non Jew be stared at/made to feel under scrutiny. Also I read something about some sort of boundary around Stamford Hill that Orthodox Jews were not allowed to pass. Is that true?

I'll leave it for the OP to respond but you may be talking of the eruv.

In Lower Broughton, Salford,,a very Jewish area, there was a lot of fuss a couple of years back because certain elements of the community wanted to erect eruv ,especially to enclose dead end streets and cul de sacs. But these are public roads and public spaces. You cannot erect eruv like his as a means of circumventing strict Jewish "law".

I worked in Stamford Hill years ago, no one stared at me. It seemed to me to be a lovely rather safe and peaceful place to walk around. I was only there for a few weeks though.

Juju thank you, yes that's my understanding. A few years ago the boys may have considered converting, but not now. When they were smaller we home educated and they were very interested in the history, tradition and holidays. We have four synagogues here, a reform, a liberal, 2 orthodox. The reform has a woman Rabi. I don't know exactly and cannot articulate why im not drawn to liberal or reform but I'm not. I think I have this idea that it could be a bit like a happy clapping Christian sect that pick and choose what is and what isn't convenient to observe.

I worked in Stamford Hill years ago, no one stared at me. It seemed to me to be a lovely rather safe and peaceful place to walk around. I was only there for a few weeks though.

I agree Mini. Its easy to get a little paranoid when there are strange or different people around you. I well remember when i first started interacting with Jewish people of various Orthodox sects and also non Ortho. I thought to myself,, OMG these people are so different,they seem so aloof, they think they are better then me, the kids are so loud, look at the clothing, the Rebbes funny hat, the black ringlets,the weird rules in the house,dont do this, dont do that. They hate me because im a Goy and not one of them etc etc....

Gradually I just started talking to people. I found it difficult and stilted sometimes. Sometimes i felt like they didnt want to talk to the Goy.

Othertimes it just flowed normally.

I remember one conversation and i shall remember it for the rest of my life. I was in this elderly couples house. Im not sure if they were Orthodox or just very traditional. Clearly they didnt have any great outward signs of wealth. We were sat around the table and she had made tea and some jewish biscuits that she had shared and we were making small talk. The room was quiet except for our chatter and the tick tock of an old pendulum clock on the mantelpiece.

As we chatted my eyes wandered to the old lady facing me,, her grey hair, her neat pinnie , her hands and wrists slightly mottled and wrinkled with age and lifes' experience and then it caught my eye. A tattoo on her arm. My eyes wandered to the shelf to my right, old black and white photos of long gone family members, women in smart dresses and men in black suits with long beards, and then the small simple wooden frame with only one thing in it,, a faded yellow star with holes in it that had clearly at one time been roughly stitched to clothing.. it chills me now to tell the tale..

Lim, we have an eruv around here - I think they just need planning permission. You can hardly notice them and you can certainly walk within their area whatever your religion. I live in an area where we have an awful lot of jews but also hindus and muslims never mind atheists and christians.

There was a request to install an eruv in my home town in south Manchester - my (Jewish) Dad was quite active in the campaign against it, as he and many other members of the Jewish community felt that it was likely to harm wider community cohesion

A LOT of the objections to the eruv were from the Jewish community, it was ultimately withdrawn

www.thejc.com/community/community-news/everybody-is-at-fault-as-contentious-hale-eruv-proposal-is-withdrawn-1.53223

bananafish - what exactly was your dad worried about? there are loads of eruvim in London/Herts. Lots of people said initially they would damage community cohesion, but I've not seen any evidence of this - most people who be hard pressed to say where the eruv is.

What exactly does an eruv consist of? I assumed it was a metaphorical/symbolic boundary rather than a physical one.

There are lots and lots of Jewish residents in the area, but secular or modern orthodox - the number of very very frum people who would benefit from the eruv was a tiny handful

The concern was that the faiths coexisted quite happily side by side, and the vast majority of Jews in the area felt that it could cause resentment and divisiveness (as the proposed plans were pretty imposing) for a very very small minority (for what is effectively a ridiculous loophole). The community has lived and integrated very harmoniously for years, and it was felt that a boundary like the proposed eruv could lead to a sense of segregation and the potential for a deterioration of relations in a community that had historically integrated well.

I wasn't close to it so I couldn't tell you! But this summarises it

"Here where we live, we have a fully integrated multi-cultural society where all faiths, and those of no faith, live side by side. Segregation does not exist here. In the world we are living in, fences and boundaries should be coming down and not being built up.

“A twelve mile route with a whopping 95 galvanised steel poles, connected by wires, will look out of place and out of keeping with the area, where we live very harmoniously at present.”

altrincham.today/2016/07/21/multi-faith-action-group-launched-fight-plans-erect-12-mile-eruv-around-hale-hale-barns/

last night it is also physical but you wouldn't notice it. Generally very thin wires attached to existing lamp posts or similar. I don't know why it would be thought harmful to community cohesion either. They do always seem to stir up controversy though- they took years deciding for or against one near me.

Cross post with banana there obviously!