Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #63

Could any GC people on here TOE the line, please, while we Watch Our Language. Tx.

Exactly. God forbid anyone is offended.

Please please please can we just not?

Losing track of who is on tomorrow. I sneak a quick look on here in between lessons (I am a teacher in a phone free school so I have to engage in subterfuge…..). Thanks to the cut and pasters (which autocarrot wanted to change to cute pastors) I can follow along.

But, names and faces don’t stick. What are we going to hear about tomorrow?

The two Darlington Nurses.

You know the ones who won pretty much the same case as SP, but not in Scotland.

It's TOE the line. It's not about pulling barges. This isn't a personal correction. This one annoys me no matter who does it.

Thank you. Another case I followed on here thanks to TT and the C&P crew.

And this is what I was wondering about in my question. If the union have been negligent by failing to recognise and take seriously the discrimination, but still followed their own rules, does the judge have to accept that? It was the “advice” which discriminated against SP rather than the refusal of legal representation
Would that be a separate case against the union for crap advice negligence?

Thank goodness I asked it as people responding are helping to keep the thread on track!!

Hmmm. I know what I saw and heard and read. I'll wait for the outcome of the appeal with (hopefully) a less captured judge presiding.
You are aware that the original judgment was a joke, right?

“Toe the line” means to conform to a rule, standard, or authority—often a bit unwillingly. The spelling is toe, not tow.

The first known printed use is military. In John Railton’s 1738 account of British army life, an officer barks: “Silence, you Dogs, toe the Line, you Puppies.” A 1775 American militia drill manual is even more explicit: soldiers must “bring their toes to the line” at each step of a wheeling march.

Navy writing uses the same idea. An 1831 account of shipboard life describes sailors lined up on the quarterdeck “each with his toes at the edge of a plank,” in what were called “toe-the-line matches” (scoldings). On wooden decks the plank seams themselves served as the line.

A nice touch in the novels of Patrick O’Brian is the inability of many of Jack Aubrey’s crews to toe the line (the seam in the deck) properly and the mild exasperation this engenders.

Thanks. I have ADHD and dyslexia- my spelling has always been atrocious. I often think I would have found things easier if someone had taught me any phonics, but in those days and all..

I didn't think it was a joke. I thought it was surprisingly (in the current context) thoughtful and balanced and true to the facts.

Were the hallucinated quotes from other cases true to the facts?

Thinking about @Conxis question.

We need @prh47bridge to expand on this. But here's what I think the sequence of questions is....

1. Did RCN do anything wrong initially or subsequently? Was the first response to SP, consistent with stated policies, reasonable given the facts, and what they did or would do for any other member? Doesn't mean they have to be good at it. Likewise with the refusal to support the second claim; reasonable, consistent with policies, etc.
2. If the answer above is that they failed SP (in one or other instance) then was it because of her GC beliefs? I think this is where the RCN needs to offer another reasonable explanation for the failure or show that it's not a PCP that impacts GC members. PCP is a provision, criteria or practice.
3. There is also the question of detriment I think.
4. As someone who has had to deal with this kind of question in the wild (in professional services) if a staff member was suspended or banished to another department or removed from a project team on an unwitnessed he said/she said conversation - I would take immediate action to remedy that situation because management had chosen sides. And that's why RCN's immediate response is so troubling.
5. Coming back to did they treat her differently? Or would they tell anyone suspended on flimsy grounds 'treat it like holiday'.

Roll on Monday, I say.

Which when "corrected" didn't show what the original hallucinations showed re the judgement and yet the judgement stands.
How does that work then?
He also dismissed the evidence of Dr U making up complaints about SP endangering patients and decided that he was a truthful and reliable witness.

Yeah OK! 🙄

How many times was the judgment edited post publication due to made up content, inaccurate quotations and alleged consultation with a secret legal person who gave incorrect legal advice?
IANAL, but this would be the last judgment I'd be recommending as "true to facts" on this board full of intelligent women with good memories, including a number of lawyers.

But you do you and all that 😂

It was made up nonsense.

Which you'd know if youd read the rest of the threads.

We have had many other threads discussing the earlier tribunal and when the appeal takes place we'll be rehashing things again. Doing so now is just boring.

If you dont want to call the cabal witches I'm happy with conspirators, it's possibly even more apt. SP was directed to seek other advice by her MP - who realised that the advice her union was giving her was useless. Her MP could recognise that, lets hope the judge can too. Clearly the RCN had adopted an institutional position on trans issues. Either their advice is always useless or they were biased.

And the comms expert chappie (Speccie Loddie?) showed Upton had falsified his so-called contemporaneous notes - but the judge still found him ‘credible’. All the judge’s credibility dissolved in that moment for me.

The “did they treat her differently” aspect is one I’d really like to know @Justabaker

NC clearly wants to prove the crap initial advice AND the failure to provide legal support were both due to a captured union who saw SP as the person in the wrong and didn’t want to be associated with the case. But it would be very interesting to know if everyone suspended gets the “treat it as a holiday” advice.
I dare say we’ll found out more when the union rep is x examined!

I'd think clique rather than cabal. Although if there's a word that's a mashup of clique and cult I think that would suit them to a T.