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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’

188 replies

R0wantrees · 04/10/2018 11:18

Response to petition,
www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

Since the planned reform of the Gender Recognition Act was announced a year ago, there have been daily articles and social media threads that question trans people’s right to exist, trying to undermine their ability to go about their daily lives free from fear and abuse. This week, a petition has been launched directly asking Stonewall to reconsider our work on trans equality.
The petition asks us to acknowledge that there are a range of viewpoints around sex and gender. Of course we know that these differing views exist, and have existed for many years. The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this. Doing so would imply that we do not believe that trans people deserve the same rights as others. However, we are unequivocal in our support of trans people’s – and everyone’s – right to equality and will remain so. Our motto is ‘acceptance without exception’. (continues)

www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall-stories-category/come-out-lgbt/our-work-trans-equality-heart-our-mission-acceptance

current threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3384045-Petition-to-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384407-Times-letter-petition-STONEWALL-CRITICISED-undermining-women-s-sex-based-rights-and-protections-Jonny-Best-et-al

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384307-James-Kirkup-Spectator-lead-article-Trans-rights-have-gone-wrong-The-new-gender-orthodoxy-allows-no-room-for-dissent

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Lion400 · 14/04/2024 09:30

‘Stonewall’s mis representation of the law was supported hugely financially by the public purse. There needs to be a public inquiry into the role of government and the influence and funding that Stonewall gained around gender identity issues.

The charity’s encouragement on Hunt’s watch (and then Kelley’s) of a hostile environment around women and men raising any questions of their position has been appalling’

Public enquiry into Stonewall now.

Woomud · 06/09/2022 16:30

It's no surprise that she's ended up in the Lords.

placemats · 05/10/2018 14:06

For all we know, this might include Nigel Farage or ghost of Jimmy Saville.

Or David Challenor.

Needmoresleep · 05/10/2018 13:55

Quite a lot of background has been posted about Aimee Challenor on this board, enough to make the Greens, the LDs and many reasonable people think twice about their suitability to advise Government on policy and, by extension, on safeguarding.

There are a number of other members of the trans-advisory committee, whose profiles are, at best brief. in other fields professionals would not hire consultants to provide advice or training to the organisation with so little understanding of the consultant's skills experience and training. And worth noting "PLEASE NOTE, SOME MEMBERS OF THE GROUP HAVE ELECTED TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS, SO HAVE NOT BEEN INCLUDED ON THIS LIST". For all we know, this might include Nigel Farage or ghost of Jimmy Saville.

R0wantrees · 05/10/2018 13:43

Its worth doing an advanced search 'Ruth Hunt Aimee Challenor' as there are quite a few relevent threads.

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DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 05/10/2018 13:42

Wasn't Challoner Junior a Stonewall Trustee?

FekkoTheLawyer · 05/10/2018 13:38

Have they ever decried 'one of their own'? NOT that I am talking about his criminal activity but his 'lifestyle' which falls under their umbrella. However the Chancellor jnr is embedded in stonewall are they not?

placemats · 05/10/2018 13:34

Excellent post Needmore

Clearly Coventry Pride have checks and balances in place because of this statement regarding David Challenor.

www.coventrypride.org.uk/2018/08/28/a-statement-from-the-trustees-of-coventry-pride/

August 28 2018

We, the trustees of Coventry Pride, were deeply shocked to learn of the actions of Mr David Challenor as concluded by the court. The safety and welfare of children in our society must be paramount. May we offer our heartfelt thoughts and prayers to the child and family.

Mr Challenor volunteered for the Charity in 2015 and 2016 he assisted with event set up and take down, and designing some posters and leaflets. The Trustees were made aware of criminal proceedings being taken against Mr Challenor in November 2016. A directive was issued to those responsible for volunteer recruitment that Mr Challenor was not to be accepted as a volunteer at the Charity’s events and if he attended public events organised by the Charity he was monitored by the trustees Mr Challenor no longer has any links with the Charity.

I'm surprised that Stonewall didn't come out with a statement on the issue. Stonewall has a far wider social and political influence than Coventry Pride.

Needmoresleep · 05/10/2018 13:33

in charity governance the Trustees are culpable and they set direction in discussion with staff.

Just looked them up and at first glance they look like a reasonable bunch. Have they been sent the petition. Could signatories ask to meet them? It looks as if they are the people who are best placed to refocus current behaviour. There is an argument to say that some members of their Trans Advisory Committee are bringing the organisation into disrepute.

In other fields organisations, ie Housing Associations, are also subject to industry regulation, where they have to demonstrate stuff like that their governance processes are actually working. Do the Trustees really know what is going on, or they simply giving up some of their time to a charitable cause they believe in to find that their role is to simply be named on the letterhead.

Ereshkigal · 05/10/2018 13:20

You don't expect granny with a weak bladder to be nonchalant when faced with a bloke in the loo at the theatre, or at least you give her some time to get used to it and throw in a few design and management suggestions.

Good point.

ChattyLion · 05/10/2018 13:17

These are all really important questions you set out, Needmore

ChattyLion · 05/10/2018 13:15

Needmore in charity governance the Trustees are culpable and they set direction in discussion with staff. CEO role is paid to carry it out with the staff.

Needmoresleep · 05/10/2018 13:06

FWIW I think gay men will be crucial if Stonewall is to be reined in. Their stake in Self-ID is much less obvious, so they cannot as easily be written off as haters. It is good to see some sensible, prominent and respected gay men step forward to help protect the organisation they helped create. A new LGB partnership?

Needmoresleep · 05/10/2018 13:02

From the outside, I cannot see that Ruth Hunt is more than a figurehead. The token lesbian, on an attractive salary, whose strings are pulled by others.

Again due diligence and governance. Who appointed, say, Aimee Challenor to their Trans-advisory group? What about the others, given their reach in terms of advice and training cuts across society from schools to banks?

Their website says "MEMBERS OF THE GROUP WERE APPOINTED FOLLOWING AN EXTENSIVE APPLICATION AND RECRUITMENT PROCESS. PLEASE NOTE, SOME MEMBERS OF THE GROUP HAVE ELECTED TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS, SO HAVE NOT BEEN INCLUDED ON THIS LIST."

Were vacancies advertised, what selection processes were used, what checks: DBS, qualifications etc, were made. Who is salaried, or what commercial benefits such as consultancy on behalf of Stonewall are given.

What sort of Governance is there. Internally, what happens if someone breaches, or stretches, current organisational policy. How is that policy set. What happens if someone could be considered as bringing the organisation into disrepute. (AC and Terfblocker might be an example, not least because a good proportion of those blocked were lesbian.)

What research and fact checking is done before policy is decided? Is any research commissioned, and how? Peer review processes? How are partner organisations (Mermaids) decided?

And externally, beyond the Charities Commission, where is the Governance. Stonewall is busy sticking its logo on the letterhead of its "Global Diversity Champions" and on its "Education Champions", but what quality mark, in terms of organisation, governance and financial integrity, do they aim for.

And its clients and donors. Does anyone check that this is a reputable organisation, capable of delivering their training and advice needs in a reasonable and acceptable manner. When I worked in a Civil Service role, we had to follow Government Procurement Guidelines, and had a list of pre-approved specialist contractors our area could use. Stonewall, are to a large extent a training and advice consultancy. Is anyone in the Public Sector looking at the value for money (including the appropriateness) of the services they provide. Or is it simply have an unregulated, ungoverned monopoly.

A quick look at Ruth's background and I wonder if she is really qualified for the job, if the job means running a far-reaching consultancy aimed at reducing barriers in the workplace and supporting LGBT+ people in society. The Trans-advisory group was only set up in 2015. If Ruth does not get a grip, I think it will go on to destroy the organisation. A good campaigner seeking societal change needs to understand the concerns of wider society, and accept that they exist. And have an understanding that societal change takes time. You don't simply respond with accusations of Hate, or demands for re-education. You don't expect granny with a weak bladder to be nonchalant when faced with a bloke in the loo at the theatre, or at least you give her some time to get used to it and throw in a few design and management suggestions.

Ofr is it just easier to take the salary and repeat Transwomen are Women like a mantra, hoping if you say it enough, it will be true.

R0wantrees · 05/10/2018 12:12

May 2018 thread with joint lobbying of Penny Mordant by Stonewall, Mermaids and Amnesty.

Also includes a number of parliamentary / westminster based receptions conferences etc:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242812--Amnesty-International-Mermaids-and-Stonewall-have-signed-an-open-letter-to-Penny-Mordaunt-stating-the-importance-of-reforming-the-Gender-Recognition-Act?

June 2018 thread Westminster Social Policy Forum. The event included may in stategic and influential roles eg politics, health, BBC etc:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

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theOtherPamAyres · 05/10/2018 12:05

Here's the Minister Penny Mordaunt finding time to speak at Stonewall's fringe meeting at the Conservative Party Conference.

But in the PM interview, Ruth Hunt told us that Stonewall had no power, no influence and was just a lickle ickle underdog fighting off the people who would take away the rights of trans people to exist.

No power? She was having a laugh, wasn't she?

Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’
theOtherPamAyres · 05/10/2018 11:59

Taxpayers have a right to know whether Stonewall is spending public money properly. The question 'are you doing the right thing in the right way?' requires a convincing answer.

Hunt said that there was no obligation to look at the wider picture. Stonewall's sole job was to stand up for the transgender lobby clients umbrella.

In the end, it will come down to money and whether public money is being used properly.

^In the year ending 30 Sept 2017, Stonewall received grants of around £300k (FCO)
£150k (DfE),
£115k (WelshG)
and £100k (ScotG)

  • representing more than 2/3 of its grants income, a tenth of all income, and an increase of more than 100k in government grants from the previous year.

More public money filled Stonewall coffers through the fees it charges, much of which is paid by publicly funded authorities, and for the programmes it runs^.

(Stuart Lachlan, Twitter thread 04/10/2018)

MipMipMip · 05/10/2018 09:36

Molokonono

Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’
Ruth Hunt & Stonewall, "do not and will not acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’
borntobequiet · 05/10/2018 09:13

I was brought up and educated a Catholic. In my experience, Catholic education is a prolonged exercise in cognitive dissonance and coercion. If successful, it renders one potentially able to believe in anything, however ridiculous.

Charliethefeminist · 05/10/2018 08:41

I don't know. AC tweeted after theRuth Hunt statement that it was 'a good day to be secretary of Stonewall's TAC'. Miranda Y would know. Just going back in for another look.

R0wantrees · 05/10/2018 08:27

AC is Secretary of the Trans Advisory Committee

Does Sarah Brown have a specific role on the Trans Advisory Committee?

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Ereshkigal · 05/10/2018 08:24

I like Storme (how did toy flsoo the derry over the e?) but these days I just think of the porn actress, so maybe not.

On an iPhone hold down the e key and lots of accented es will come up!

Ereshkigal · 05/10/2018 08:19

So many narratives the trans activists have been saying are almost the direct reverse of what is happening.

This is an essential part of the narcissism. They enjoy this aspect of it. The more outrageous the better.

Charliethefeminist · 05/10/2018 07:59

AC is Secretary of the Trans Advisory Committee

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