Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

Why is it the English are the only people not allowed to describe themselves by their ethnicity? English means descended from Anglo Saxons. It is those that deny this that are dividing the country, not those like Suella who are simply stating facts.

I would expect at the next election whenever that is called.

Here is another good article on the matter. It also discusses the supposed views of some “ex” Tory politicians including JRM and Sunak.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/sep/26/sunak-definition-britishness-englishness-ethnonationalism

“Attempts to impose a simplified ancestry-based definition quickly become absurd, as Lowe saw when, in August, he could not answer, whether or not he would consider King Charles, whose father was born in Greece and who has German and Danish ancestry, a “white Briton”.”

I don't think anyone said the English aren't allowed to describe themselves by their ethnicity. The only problem is that when one political movement starts setting arbitrary boundaries around what it means to be 'sufficiently English' and then plans to make policy around that, i.e. remigration, deportation. That is a bit historical, IYSWIM. Define yourself any way you want, but don't make it policy.

I agree with you up to a point. It is a real pity that it has come to this but you have to understand why. The English feel that their identity is being eroded and, worse still, they are called racist for talking about it.
Contrast this with the reaction to anyone who says they are proudly Irish or Jewish or Native American.

It's sad, but maybe if more English people stood up and spoke out about the flagshaggers and balaclava brigades, things would get better. Every time a Muslim does something, Muslims are expected to denounce it publicly. The same should apply to proud English people who cannot abide Tommy, Tommo and the blackshorts.

Blimey loads of English people have stood up and spoke out about the "flagshaggers" and "balaclava brigades"! Where have you been? Under a rock?

Yes and no. I haven't seen enough people linking what Tommo et al are doing to the toxic discourse about foreignness and Englishness. It's the connection that's missing and needs to be made explicit. Plenty of condemnation of the balaclava boys, but the links to Reform, Farage and the right wing media are not being talked about except in niche groups; and if those groups speak out, they're denounced as 'lefties'.

@pointythings
It's completely reasonable to be concerned about far/hard right parties and the potential for policies of remigration & deportation. But can't you see the arguments put forward on this thread by some are utterly counter-productive to your aims?
Calling a British-Asian politician a deplorable human for discussing her identity, denying the existence of an English ethnicity, and calling anyone who thinks it exists a racist, and your liberal use of "flagshaggers", whilst complaining that you are in return denounced as a lefty, as if that's a denunciation at all.

IMO this all fuels hard right politics and adds evidence to their sense of a national identity under threat. The only way to help them more would be to start a thread proposing to make the word Christmas illegal.

@Dadalus - where do you stand on ethno-nationalism? Because that is what this is about.

Nobody is denying anyone their identity. Most politicians in both the Tory and Reform Party are trying to make sure they are defining themselves, away from the ethno nationalists.

And if you now want to have the discussion on religion? You don’t need a religion to be English, a lot of people are atheists anyway these days.

Yes agree, plus people seem to view online abuse as ok if from one group.

Suella Braverman doesn’t owe anyone an identity they demand of her. In fact she doesn’t even owe an answer and could say why do you ask me not him?

@EasternStandard - she was a barrister, it is reasonable to assume she knows how to deflect, if she wanted to. She also went to Cambridge and is highly educated and will understand all the historical detail including the Oxford university study I linked.

She has two young children and is married to a Jewish man I think. She could easily have turned this to her advantage and talked about her identity and how her children will be free to identify just as they wish in years to come. She can still do this. If you think about it in that light, then Kemi’s comments on her own children make sense too.

And making critical comments about what a politicians says, and the impact on society more widely, is part of free speech and a fundamental democratic right. I am not sure who was supposedly abusive on this thread, although the title is click baity.

Ethno nationalism or even a hint of it via ambiguity in any shape or form, should have 0 place in British society today.

There's a completely different way of looking at this that doesn't automatically involve Tommy Robinson or the far right (which Reform isn't by the way..its a mainstream party).

A lot of people are worried about their country and society and culture changing, beyond recognition in some areas. And actually preferring how things were before. Which is completely understandable and reasonable. And if successive governments aren't listening despite the country repeatedly votong for less immigration, then what do they do? Some are protesting. Some are putting up flags. I think compared to many other countries we are lucky that that is all that is happening as it's pretty mild. Unfortunately the left wing government have been over reacting and putting some people in prison for exercising free speech. If people aren't allowed to protest using their words then people might start to protest using actions. It's very worrying.

Nope she’s a human and under an othering spotlight doesn’t have to respond as anyone demands.

Anyone can feel hurt at that stupid BBC question, bizarrely they only ask Suella Braverman and not a white, male politician.

Most people will feel like saying fuck off to being othered, she answered well considering.

As for your claim she has no place here as she said British Asian why do you feel so sure you get to order that? It’s very arrogant to demand how anyone identifies.

You're not ethnically English, there is no English ethnicity. You are white European. English is a civic identity and anybody can be English. They are not the same.

See my comment above. There is no English ethnicity, its not about denying us what we are, its about making all people here feel welcome without a genetix hierarchy of who is more English than who. If you care about diversity you would drop the issue, I mean what does it matter to YOU personally what YOUR ancestors were? You have never been oppressed for the colour of your skin or for who you are, your lineage is irrelevant to your life story.

I've already said that SB should be free to define her own ethnicity, just like everybody else. I've already said that I have no problem with people identifying their ethnicity as whatever they want, English included. I have not called anyone wanting to identify as English racist.

What fuels the hard right is pandering to them instead of calling them out. They love to play the victim and you are suggesting we should let them. No. These are people who want to deny actual human beings the right to live, work and be themselves. They will not stop until they have what they want. And we all know how appeasement has played out in the past.

I think you are confusing race with ethnicity there. Of course there is an English ethnicity.

Why does this matter to you so much? Why can't you let people self describe as they wish?

But you just said in your post above this one that there is no English ethnicity?
Edit. Apologies that was the OP not you.

The pp cannot say English even though she has ties here but SB is castigated, gets online abuse and told she has no place in society for not saying English.
Typical mn

And ik you’re highlighting how ridiculous it is.

It's called rage politics...Trump play book but it's no longer working. People need some rest from it.

It seems hyperbolic to call SB hateful.

There is genuine confusion over civic Englishness and English as a genetically identifiable ethnic group.

I am an immigrant to the UK myself. I feel like both Suella and Kemi are right. It depends upon the context.

Trying to hype it up is just wedge politics, stoking short term political advantage for long term disunity and disgruntlement.

Because when white people start talking about ethnicity and heritage other people around the world start getting unalived. We need to look past what we may have been before, it is irrelevant now. England is and always will be a postracial country, so get used to it and start celebrating diversity for all the wonderful things that it brings to each of our lives. We are so lucky, our 'ancestors' never got to enjoy those privileges.

The BBC need to stop targeting non white female politicians with their rage bait. No wonder they’re losing so many licence fee payers.