Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

The most ludicrous part of that QT was the man repeatedly asking if Braverman knew what the word indigenous means in a tone of confident patronising certainty of his superior knowledge, before telling her that he was born here therefore indigenous.

Of course the supplicant diversity is our strength panel just left him to his own embarrassment. It's far too scary for them to explain his mistake to him as ensuing shrieks of racism would have broken the sound barrier. He was all over social media being congratulated on his "slam dunk burn".

Suella was given a good verbal kicking instead.

What a pathetic state the BBC is in. Words mean whatever the diversity says they mean.

You have missed the point I was making. Completely.

@pointythings

First adults who don't work,

In UK, adult is defined as aged 18 and above. So, out of work adults and pensioners are eligible based on age whether they are working or not.

However, if there are not enough vacancies for 16 to 18 year olds. Then yes, those who are looking for work, but can’t find could argue it’s not their fault.

then naturalised citizens.

If someone has become UK citizen and has UK passport, why would they not be allowed to vote if they are 18 or older, working or not?

Scotland reduced the voting age to 16 for their independence referendum in 2014.

I was definitely not the person suggesting only degree educated people should vote.

I disagree with your idea though. It opens the door to incremental disenfranchisement. First adults who don't work, then pensioners, then naturalised citizens, until we were right back in the 18th century. Of course the chipping away would come from both sides of the political divide, with each side acting in a title for tat sequence. Let's not.

@pointythings

All I said was that it's possible to be intelligent and also an utter twat. Just a simple statement of fact, it's not that deep.

Okay. I can’t remember the name of the posters who suggested that voting should be limited to those with a university degree.

I would lower the age to 16 for those who are working. Seems harsh that people who are paying tax can’t vote because they have not reached 18.

Applied to what? Everyone is entitled to vote provided they meet age, nationality and residency criteria. I wouldn't dream of suggesting the arseholes of this world should be disenfranchised. All I said was that it's possible to be intelligent and also an utter twat. Just a simple statement of fact, it's not that deep.

@pointythings

I love the way you're extrapolating from things I haven't said... All I did was point out some basic human values.

Not extrapolating anything, but asking how your definition of a good person can be applied.

Of course not.

I love the way you're extrapolating from things I haven't said... All I did was point out some basic human values.

@pointythings

By their deeds shall you know them.

Over what time frame would the deeds need to be observed?

If someone was considered not to be good, would they be barred from voting?

Sounds like a long and expensive vetting process considering there are approximately 48 million registered voters in the UK.

This is all an argument about what the word “English” means. Not really about who is English.

There is ambiguity. English can mean someone with a UK passport living in England, participating in its civic life and belonging to the community therein; or it can mean the ethnic groups who came over from the marshy coast of Jutland and Friesland and mixed with the local British, and remained static for about 1,400 years.

Admitting that the later is relevant, true and valid does NOT mean that you think being ethnically English is a prerequisite for being English as a member of the civic group.

People are misunderstanding one another at best and purposely twisting other people at worst. I agree with @Araminta1004 that it’s a dangerous and divisive thing to do for a small short term political advantage. We don’t need these sort of wedges.

English as an ethnicity literally does exist. You can take a DNA test and it will tell you what percent English you are. Im sorry but you’re spouting bollocks here.

By their deeds shall you know them.

I think it is fair to say that it is bad/plain stupid to establish enemies on the inside of a country in this geopolitical climate, when there is an abundance of enemies on the outside.

@pointythings

How would each of those examples be measured?

Who would do the measuring?

Would there be an exam to take to establish who is good and who is bad?

Empathy. Conscience. Common sense. Critical thinking. Choosing not to judge. Reading widely. Not making assumptions about people based on appearance. Asking questions. Acceptance. There's probably a lot more.

@pointythings

The problem is that intelligence doesn't make someone a good person.

So, what does make a good person?

@PacificDinner

It feels like people want to misrepresent her for their own political purposes.

Yes.

I have watched BBC Question Time for many years. However, since the 2016 referendum, no matter what the original question asked by the audience was, someone on the panel turns it around to:

Say why Brexit was wrong.

Don’t for anyone else but us as all the other parties are rubbish.

He's clearly intelligent. I imagine SB is too. The problem is that intelligence doesn't make someone a good person.

Obviously Boris Johnson is intelligent. You may not like him or what he's done but he's hardly stupid. He wouldn't be as successful as he has been without having a good brain. It's unintelligent to suggest otherwise.

Well there is academic intelligence and then there is emotional intelligence.

I think you’re being over generous.

Boris can be criticised for lots of things but no one that graduated from Oxbridge is “thick as mince” to use your expression.

And going to university makes you bright. That's not my experience. Look at Boris Johnson, they might be well read and have qualifications but that's not intelligence

Changing the subject and calling a Cambridge graduate “thick as mince”.

What a contribution to the thread.