Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/style-guide/ethnic-groups/

This ethnicity monitoring classification list is public policy on the government website. It's been in use for decades. The groups were agreed with immigrants from ethnic groups. The counting of ethnicity is mandatory for many services. The data is used by the government for planning everything.

Suella simply described herself in line with this public policy.

Has this ever been described as spouting hatred? Are we ripping apart the country when we fill in the census? Are you upset that a woman who is not ethnically English knows that?
Is mandatory ethnicity monitoring in every single public sector organisation dividing and conquering?
How do you think young English people think when you tell them that their own ethnicity is hatred?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-commits-to-introducing-mandatory-ethnicity-and-disability-pay-gap-reporting-for-large-employers

Are you going to describe this as "spouting hatred"?

Ripping the country apart?

Are you referring to an intervention that will actually identify and require action to prevent, racial and disability bias in employment as somehow ‘damaging’?

what on earth is ‘ethnically English’? I desperately wish we could go back to when people knew they didn’t know what they were talking about and didn’t feel entitled to voice their baseless opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. There is no English ethnicity, we are a nation of immigrants and our language is German. We aren't even indigenous to these bloomin Islands for goodness sake!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1x04362/bbc_pays_white_staff_less_in_almost_every_pay_band/

Have you seen the BBC ethnicity pay reporting?

They are paying white people less in almost every pay band. Do you hate that young white people know they will be paid less by the BBC?

Is that "spouting hatred"?

Did you bother to open the ethnicity classifications which have been in use in the census for 4 decades?

Did you even bother to read the nuance of what the data is actually showing? There are loads of people there explaining it, you do have to be able to understand it though.

"I desperately wish we could go back to when people knew they didn’t know what they were talking about and didn’t feel entitled to voice their baseless opinion"

You pretty much described yourself there didn't you?

I just find the outrage over this so very odd, and I really am no Suella fan. I am not ethnically English and would find it absurd and tbh dismissive of my real ethnic origins if anyone suggested I was ethnically English. As though my living in England erases the blood of my ancestors. I wasn’t even born in this country, though I’ve been here since a young child and do have citizenship. I’d describe myself as English if someone asked where I was from, yes. I feel culturally really quite English, especially compared to extended family back in my country of origin. But my DNA has no connection to the British isles whatsoever. I’m not sure why anyone would be bothered by this - it’s just factually correct.

People describe Britain as an island of immigrants or as JRM said a “mongrel” people, but that’s true of, I would argue, most countries across the world. The fact is that ethnically British people share similar DNA when analysed - including the very fact that this dna reflects various migrations to Britain.

The topic of DNA and its origins is important to me because my ethnicity is Romani. If you tested my DNA for ethnic origins, there is no “Romani” gene. However, my DNA would show origins from Asia and Europe that when looked at as a whole betrays me as a Romani gypsy. I would wholeheartedly object to the idea that my ethnicity doesn’t exist just because there is no specific “Romani” gene. I cannot see why it is different for ethnically English people - there are patterns of specific ancestral origins that could reveal you to be English if analysed.

I also find it a bit odd because if you say there is no English ethnicity, you are saying that ethnically English people have no ethnicity. But I, an English person of foreign ethnicity, most certainly do have an ethnicity which I’m proud of. Are you saying my ethnicity doesn’t exist either? Or are you just saying you are the default, neutral human and us ethnics are different flavours of exotic English?

I am English in attitude and nationality, England is my home. I’m proud and supremely grateful to be able to call myself English. I don’t feel my ethnicity makes me any less English in any meaningful way. I don’t feel remotely threatened by ethnically English people correctly acknowledging themselves as ethnically English.

I think this is a bad take. No ethnic group has ever lived in total isolation. So if this is a reason that there is no English ethnicity, then no other ethnicity exists either.

And if you want to claim that ethnicity is all fake, well I have some sympathy. Its certainly mapping a continuous, multi dimensional variable onto a discrete list. But also, if you try to model the world without the concept of ethnicity, you'll do a worse job, it's clearly pointing at something real.

As white English people become a minority in 40 years they are bound to start to identify themselves more as a group and to think more about ethnic identity.
It was never necessary before as it was taken for granted that England would be a Christian heritage Anglo Saxon country.
Other groups such as the Jewish community and the Muslim community collectively fight for their own ethnic identity, the issues that affect them are addressed as a collective and this is why it is becoming more of an issue now as identity is becoming more relevant.

I am not arguing that ethnicity doesn't exist, simply that English as an ethnicity does not exist. Because there is no such 'ethnicity'. Unlike Indian or Chinese which is a distinctive ethnicity, English should be thought of as more of a civic identity, if you feel like you are English and you ascribe to core English values like tolerance, religious freedom and the rule of law then your English as far as I am concerned.

The idea that English ethnicity does not exist because we are a nation of immigrants, but Indian ethnicity does exist is confusing to me.

Indians themselves don't even agree on whether north and south indians are the same ethnicity. Waves of immigration have come from Iran, steppe pastoralists, tibeto-burmese people. Haplogroups are less consistent among Indians than among white British people.

This seems remarkably similar to England's history of conquest of conquerors and mass migration inflow.

Haha Debbie 😂

I think the tendency to call someone you disagree with 'a disgrace to humanity' is the sort of hyperbole that is undermining our political system and social cohesion. I cant stand the woman but she's not a disgrace to humanity.

Well she is. Amd not especially competent, remembering her role in a previous Tory government. She was rightly sacked by Sunak for stoking tensions.

Yes it is hyperbole.

Call her a bad politician if you want but a "disgrace to humanity"?

That's over the top and a bit ironic considering OP is arguing against spouting hatred.

She’s horrendous - what level of safe hate must that woman have

Why are the indigenous English being denied their history and identity? If you are half English, half from another ethnicity, it’s completely obvious how distinct different groups are, in so many ways; humour, history, food, language, acceptable behaviour, cultural norms, what is thought of as important, genealogy, even diseases. Most people I know who are born in England but have parents from another country, feel very strong links to that country, often calling it ‘home’ ‘the motherland’ etc. They often feel closer emotional bonds to that country than they do to England. They can live in that country very easily. They call themselves proudly Greek, Jamaican, Iranian, Italian, because that’s the culture they’ve been brought up in at home as it’s their ethnicity . Why can’t the English have that?

I'm English and that's my identity.

I don't really care who else considers themselves English or why. Of course English people have our identity and history. As do the Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc.

We're also all British who qualify for a British passport.

Because she is overstepping and it’s about personal choice. As she is a politician she should keep her personal choice and feelings to herself!
If someone has British nationality that is all that matters. They can feel English or Scottish or Welsh or NI (or more than one of those) and if their grandparent was born in eg Jamaica, they can if they want to also feel ties there. It’s their choice, not for someone in power to tell them. Also with ethnicity questionnaires you can insert „prefer not to say“. That is people‘s choice.
Same with dual nationals, English law doesn’t recognise them to be lesser than those who only have the British passport.
The world is increasingly global and mixed. And dinosaurs from the last century obsessing about national identity and nation states and ethnicity and how many generations of it, it’s regressive. She needs to look forward as a politician not backward. It’s completely irrelevant if I can trace my roots back one generation or to Norman times. It’s all just time periods. And it’s about my personal identity it has nothing to do with the State!

Why should she keep her feelings to herself @Araminta1004 when other politicians don't.

If they all kept personal opinions out of politics then you would have a point.

“Stoking tensions” aka objecting to the Boris wave which we now all agree (well, most sensible people) was madness.

In my opinion she’s an utter cunt. But what intrigues me is why she’s demonising immigrants so much when she is second generation, does she not realise once those who haven’t been born here are repatriated it’ll be her next if her party gained power?

I really get anyone with her background pushing these messages, it’s bizarre.

Because @Twiglets1 what she said wasn’t highlighting enough that it’s purely down to the individual’s choice and that is simply how she happens to feel and others, just like her, can and may feel completely different.