To think it’s crazy that National Minimum wage is £27k

However, three countries have their own parliaments, economies and laws. One doesn't. So your link is only for the one that doesn't have autonomy. England.

You’re confusing devolution with sovereignty. The UK is a sovereign country consisting of four constituent countries. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have varying devolved powers, while England is governed directly by the UK Parliament in many areas.

That doesn’t make UK-wide statistics England-only. If the research explicitly covers the United Kingdom, it includes all four countries, regardless of their devolved arrangements.

The research papers I gave you were whole of the UK based, and honestly the difference in the devolved powers is irrelevant as we are looking at the wealth and distribution, not laws and regulations, so it’s not only incorrect but irrelevant.

At least we are getting somewhere and you are recognising that the UK is a country now though…onwards and upwards

UK wide statistics can't really exist. For the simple reason it would be impossible.

Take Scotland.

Different tax bands.

No right to buy.

Any millennial won't have the massive uni debts English ones have. Free tuition.

No one pays for water. It's nationalised. So no water bills.

Scottish child payment. For millennial parents if they have low income.

Nationalised rail. So cheaper fares.

Every under 22 and over 60 gets free buses.

Everyone gets free prescriptions.

Everyone has access to an NHS dentist.

We have Scottish Law.

We have Scottish Education. Completely separate and different to England.

Neither Labour or Tories govern Scotland.

The UK is not a country. It's a political union.

So your stats are skewed to England.

Also free personal care for the elderly. That the UK parliament want to introduce. We have had it since devolution.

Just to add. We still have EMA and footwear and clothing grants

Blast from the past EMA. Is the amount still £10-£30 depending on what your parents earn? I remember it in college days.

It was before I retired. Probably a bit more now. I was the EMA coordinator for a while in my job. It’s a great thing imo. Without it my son’s partner could never had stayed on at school, then got her degree. Her parents were on benefits. Skint. But still wanted the best for their children. They got it 😊.

I genuinely don't think that's the case. When I split up from my x-DH, initially I was working part time and receiving a top up from UC. We were absolutely struggling, hand to mouth style. Then a rare opportunity came up in my workplace to go full time, and I increased my salary by 40% (initially I was on a contract that's 60% of a full time place, so I went up to full time). I lost UC, but gained so much more in salary.

You should watch the free Rebel Finance School course on Youtube, which talks about how to achieve financial freedom (over time, of course, not overnight) and explains how to get out of debt.

You’re confusing differences in devolved policy with the ability to collect national statistics.

The UK absolutely is a country. It’s a sovereign state made up of four constituent countries. Being a political union doesn’t somehow prevent it from being a country.

The fact that Scotland has different tax bands, tuition fees, laws or public services doesn’t make UK-wide statistics impossible. It makes them more important, because they allow us to compare outcomes across different parts of the UK.

By your logic, we couldn’t produce UK-wide poverty statistics because housing costs differ between London and Newcastle. We couldn’t calculate average household income because wages differ between regions. And we couldn’t produce national life expectancy figures because healthcare outcomes differ between communities.
That’s not how statistics work.

And several of your claims are misleading anyway.

• Water: Scottish households do pay for water and sewerage. Charges are generally collected through council tax bills. Not receiving a separate bill doesn’t make water free. In fact Scottish Water – Household Charges 2026/27 shows the average annual charge as being £532
• University: Free tuition for eligible Scottish students doesn’t mean Scottish millennials have no student debt. Maintenance loans still exist.
• Rail: Public ownership doesn’t automatically mean cheaper fares. You’d need actual fare comparisons to establish that.
• Dentistry: Having an NHS dental system doesn’t mean everyone can actually access an NHS dentist accepting patients. Public Health Scotland - Dental Data confirms that even though 95% of people in Scotland are registered with NHS Dental, only 61% have actually been able to access it in the last two years. But again this is irrelevant because it doesn’t tell us anything about pensioners.
• Buses: Free travel for eligible age groups is a policy difference, not evidence that UK-wide economic statistics are invalid.
• Government: Scotland has its own devolved government, but it is also governed by the UK Parliament on reserved matters. Westminster decisions absolutely affect Scotland.

Most importantly, UK-wide statistics aren’t automatically English statistics just because England has the largest population. They’re weighted to reflect the population being measured.
You could potentially legitimately argue that UK averages conceal important differences between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. That’s why regional and national breakdowns exist.
But claiming UK-wide statistics are impossible because Scotland has different policies is simply a misunderstanding of what an average is.

You’re arguing against the existence of national statistics, not demonstrating that any of the figures are wrong.

But ALL of that stuff you mention is irrelevant because it literally is about policies from one part of the UK to the next…that doesn’t tell us anything about what we have been discussing, and it doesn’t change anything about financial statistics for pensioners.

I can do this with you as many times as you want, but it won’t change the facts about pensioners. And referring to them as ‘my stats’ is quite misleading given they are published facts that are provided by governments and financial think tanks.

You are just giving more reasons why pensioners have it easier today than the pensioners of the future because as a country we will not and can not afford to roll this out into the whole of the UK and it will not be in place when millennials retire.

Why would you expect to have more than "enough" as a state benefit?

You wouldn't get anything near "enough" from Universal Credit or JSA.

Free personal care and a reformed care service will save the NHS and local authorities a lot of money. Loads of NHS beds are blocked by people needing care, and local authorities pay private providers a small fortune. It will benefit us all.

Topped up by how much UC?

I’m not saying I’m against it. I just don’t see it happening.

And I was saying that it was entirely irrelevant to the conversation I was having with another poster who just segued into random points continuously

“Are you trying to be funny? Seriously though? Because if you are I won’t bother to reply…I genuinely just thought you were oblivious to pensioner wealth because you lived in a bubble, now I’m not so sure you aren’t having a laugh at my expense.”

@Boreded you are being phenomenally patient, but I fear there is little good faith on the internet now. Anyone real in good faith knows exactly the economic situation and the fact of intrrgenerational inequality, it’s been discussed many times, and most of us are living it. These days you can’t even guarantee you’re not arguing with a bot let alone a half decent human. It’s sad, but the information-carrying and sharing capacity of the internet is greatly reduced. Don’t get too invested or engaged. Thats why I picked my username actually, to remind myself! 🙂

Agreed. I think I became invested when I was told that the poster didn’t like me 🙄 what because we have a difference of opinion 🤷‍♀️ I’m a stranger on the internet, she should feel indifferent towards me…not laugh at me for being on mumsnet at my age (as though being the age that people generally have young children and teens at home is the wrong age to be on mumsnet 🤔)

I second this. You really have been exceptionally patient on post after post and produced statistic after statistic. There are some people on here arguing that black is white and they just don't stop and admit their mistake or lack of knowledge when someone presents them with facts. They are looking very foolish. One or two have been very rude and attacked you personally, which you have dealt with with exceptional patience and grace. Age and wisdom are clearly not linked, not on this thread anyway!

Ok you’re poor. I get it. Hope things get better for you soon. Btw, I could run my water all day every day and the actual water would cost me £0. 😊

As already stated, your water is not free, you pay for your water through your council tax bill. Your marginal cost is £0, but that is the case for anyone.

I’m quite comfortable financially, thanks, but that’s entirely irrelevant. My own financial circumstances don’t change the fact that millennials as a generation face greater financial disadvantages than previous generations did at the same age. And that they will continue to do so into their retirement. That’s precisely why we use statistics rather than personal anecdotes.

We’re discussing pensioners and generational inequality, not my bank balance. The fact you’ve resorted to personal assumptions rather than addressing the evidence says plenty. And using poverty as an insult in a discussion about financial hardship is quite the irony.

Have a nice day 💐

Thanks, appreciate both you and @SomeoneIsWrongOnTheInternet

You are absolutely right that I should probably just give up at this point, especially with such a tone deaf poster who is now using being poor as an insult

It really is desperate to try to use poverty as an insult and to show off about wasting water.
As it happens, we are very comfortable too, although I'm a younger Gen X. As you say, this is not about me/you or any other individual. There are clear statistics regarding generational inequality. I have mainly Gen Z children so can clearly see that finances for them are/will be far harder compared to those of my age. I have a great deal of sympathy with younger people, who have been politically discriminated against, in my opinion.

Exactly. And living in the North East makes it even harder, given the lower wages and fewer opportunities here.

I’m fortunate that I made some good financial decisions when I was younger, despite being relatively poor myself and working in a low-paid role. I bought my first home at 22 and a second property for my in-laws at 28. I’ve since managed to secure a reasonably well-paid job, and between that and the equity in the second property, I should have a comfortable retirement.

But we’re hardly talking about enormous wealth. The second property is worth less than £150k and generates around £500 a month in rent. I’ll be comfortable, but I certainly won’t be living extravagantly, and I doubt I’ll enjoy as many holidays as some of my older relatives have, despite having made financial decisions that should arguably have put me in a stronger position. And that’s really the point. My personal circumstances don’t change the wider reality for my generation.

For people from working-class backgrounds today, the opportunities to build a comfortable retirement are increasingly limited. When wages barely cover living costs, where is the spare money supposed to come from to build a pension, save or invest? Homeownership is significantly lower, meaning many will face paying rent throughout retirement rather than owning a home outright.

I was fortunate enough to get onto the property ladder young, even on a low wage. That same opportunity is increasingly out of reach for people today. Just because some of us managed to get ahead doesn’t mean we should ignore how much harder it’s become for everyone else.

And particularly those who are pensioners currently, should show more empathy and understanding towards the younger generations. Life is getting harder, and I really wouldn’t want to be in my son’s generation where it is 30k to attend uni, 60k if you don’t live at home. You end up with low job prospects even with a degree, especially anywhere outside of London (unless commutable) and one or two other major cities. And suddenly you are mid 20s still at home and don’t know when you’ll save up for a house deposit.

Nail on the head with all that. Unfortunately, some people just won't accept the reality facing younger workers today.

Why would you say that? I’ve just looked at ours, we spend £900 a month on utilities and services, including water, energy, Tv licence, broadband, council tax, life insurance, home and contents insurance.