To feel angry that some people can’t accept sometimes accidents happen? (Title edited by MNHQ to avoid any confusion)

All accidents are def not preventable- what if you slip on the stairs - should you not have stairs? Yes you can hold the bannister but that may not always work, it’s just a light touch.

Many accidents happen in sport - does that mean no-one should play sports and sit about all day?

Or cars - what if your tyre blows out on the motorway or sudden engine failure.

A PP described how she thought about this stuff and how it affected her.

i have (at least one!) health condition that could mean I become ill when I’m out and may injure myself if I fall - do I still go out? Yes, because what life is it being stuck in. I don’t drive though, that’d be illegal.

One of the things I really dislike about the online dialogue is people pretending not to be able to recognise typos. It’s so boring. And it doesn’t make the reader look clever.

Everyone has an accent 😂

I agree with you OP, and I think in cases like this, people invoke what they've "learnt" through those ghoulish true crime programmes/podcasts and think they are seeing what others aren't.

I think it's slightly different to those who can't understand that road accidents sometimes happen where no one is at fault, but the underlying psychology is the same - it's a need to feel superior in a lot of cases, but also to reassure themselves that it couldn't happen to them or their loved ones.

Yes, but some people think they don’t.

There are accidents where there really is no blame.

There isn’t really a nice way to say this, but your drowning example makes you sound really ignorant. I don’t have the statistics to hand, but the number of people who drown because they haven’t learnt to swim is minuscule. That’s just not why people drown. Really stupid comment, and it’s pretty rare I would post on a thread to say that but your post really stood out I’m afraid.

Often not always I'd say. But even so, negligence and incompetence are an inevitable consequence of being human. We can't legislate against every possible consequence nor can we run out own lives doing a risk assessment of everything, rhere wouldn't be time to actually do the things. Legally I think there is a concept of propotionality. If we focused all our effort on preventing accidents we wouldn't be able to live, we would have no freedom

I mean logically we should probably ban cars or limit their top speed to 30ph or something.

But collecively we prefer to live with the risk

You know what, I really wish a French accent would happen to me.

There are people online who jump to conclusions, look for blame, shoehorn in their favourite political points or conspiracy theories. I’ve not seen the online posts about poor Noah but I assume the political point scoring/ conspiracy theories probably don’t apply, but you can guarantee that if there was an asylum seeker hotel nearby then that would have been part of the online suspicion (possibly spilling into the real world).

People online like this don’t try to assign blame because they want to prevent accidents. They do it to feel superior, out of boredom, because they think they’re more intelligent than everyone else, something to say that’s more sensational than the person before. You can imagine them together in person whipping each other up. The more moderate blamers prefer to assign a reason so they can believe it won’t happen to them, with no thought to the family in the middle of this.

Sometimes bad things just happen, due to random accidents or a series of events.

Well, if you ever awaken from a short and genteel coma, who knows what could happen?

I think people want someone to blame because it then makes it preventable. If it’s preventable then they can do something to ensure it doesn’t happen to them or someone they love. They don’t want to accept the reality that sometimes shit things happen and it wasn’t foreseeable and nobody is to blame. If they accept that reality they then have to confront the possibility that it could become their reality.

This is the main reason people do it.

It's also why people 'victim blame' generally. Well if she hadn't been walking on her own in the dark... well if she had left him the first time he hit her...; well if... it's because people think if they follow an arbitrary set of rules they won't be a victim.

But there's another aspect. A lot of people watch soaps and trashy reality tv etc. These shape social narratives and the language people use. Some people speak about real life events using the same dramatic language as you see in soaps or reality TV. Always looking for the 'drama', the outrage, the plot twist or the cliffhanger.

And yes, peope who comment on public online forums aren't generally the brightest.

Many accidents are technically preventable. But humans are flawed and make mistakes, take risks, don't predict possible outcomes, don't recognise potential unintended consequences etc.

Eg someone puts something on the stairs intending to take it up next time they go; they've done it for years and no one has ever tripped over it and fallen down the stairs; they grow confident in doing it over time because nothing has ever happened; one day, someone trips over it and falls down the stairs. Technically, it was preventable because no one can trip over something if it isn't there but their ongoing internal risk assessment had put it at a very low risk because no one has ever tripped before. They hadn't put it there hoping someone would trip over it and the person who fell didnt see it and think, I'm going to trip over that. So it was an accident but it was also preventable.

And in that case, people would he quick to point the finger of blame - well, it's obvious that if you put something on the stairs, someone will trip over it! But if that hasn't happened in, say, 20 years of doing it, the risk feels very low and people will take the chance.

There’s no such thing as an accident. Someone or something caused it. However ‘accidents’ are usually cited when there was no intention or foresight of harm. Doesn’t make things any less sad. But if there’s an investigation there will be learning points that could prevent it happening again.

My nana always says if people took more care accidents wouldn't happen.

True accidents are things that no amount of carefulness can mitigate.

I have my own opinions of the Noah incident.

His dad put out a statement saying his son was only mildly autistic, which I disagree with as a measure of autism. This child did have some significant support needs if he was an eloper. Maybe this was the first time he had eloped, I don't know, but when I read a parent describing their child's autism as mild I think it can come from a place of not truly understanding what those support needs actually are. I believe he also said he will not acknowledge if any one called his name, so I am finding it hard to understand how he was put in this position where he didn't have an adult in close proximity at all times.

I can't imagine taking an eloper to a playground or park that does not have a 360° perimeter fence with weight closing gates as a 1:1 adult to child ratio. I certainly wouldn't put myself at a distance where I would not be at arms reach from a child with documented communication and language deficits because they can't cry out for help.

I do believe there was an element of carelessness that had contributed to this child's death. I understand the grandad fell over and lost sight of him, and I understand that was not foreseeable, and hindsight is a fantastic thing and I come from a very biased place, and I am thinking with my emotions here as I have an autistic child myself where I have had to think of all of these risks before ever stepping out of the house every single day.

I also think when my son was that age, I didn't know as much about autism as I do now and I recognise I am coming from a place of privileged experience but I was not and am not a perfect parent who makes perfect judgements every day.

In this case I find it hard to accept it is truly an accident but what I can accept is that it is extremely tragic for everybody involved and there was no malice involved and certainly no intent. I really feel for his family, no family should lose a child.

🤣😟

😆

Exactly this.

I've hurt myself on the stairs twice, both technically preventable. First time I was carrying something down and missed a step. Could be argued that if I was holding the handrail it wouldn't have happened.

Second time, I stood on a box which slid away from me causing me to hurt my foot. If the box hadn't been there...

My child did a runner from the park through an open gate aged 3. Never happened previously so I viewed it was low risk...until it happened. Had I not also been supervising a baby I would have easily caught up to him before he vanished but I had to turn to grab the baby which delayed me. Thankfully all was well but a different day, different time..who knows.

Another child fell off the climbing frame, a risk I had considered which is why I positioned myself right at the end. What I hadn't anticipated is him tripping a couple of feet away from the edge and sailing right over and me being unable to catch him. Again it was preventable if I hadn't have let him on the climbing frame but kids need to be able to play.

Everything is preventable to a degree-don't go outside when it's icy, don't walk down the stairs, never let go of your child's hands and never remove your eyes from them for a split second but real life isn't like that. The world is full of risks and some are calculated ones we take every single day otherwise we would end up absolute wrecks. Sadly for the minority, the things most people do everyday without consequence have a consequence for them and I don't think it's fair to blame them.

Yeah. It’s been highlighted a lot over the last few years.

Critical thinking is becoming a much rarer skill. An over reliance on the internet isn’t helping. People believe anything they see, they don’t look for second sources or consider motives.

And there’s an increasing rush to be the “first” to say something. If you’re wrong, it quietly fades away. If you’re not, you can say you called it. Perhaps it’s a balm for the former; you can present as being someone who is switched on and clever if you get it right. Perhaps it’s because we gamify everything now and people consider real life events like they’re gritty ITV Who Dun Its.

Most people don’t consider the real people on the other side of it.

I think an accident is something that could be prevented.
Looking a why something/accident has happened is crucial in understanding if it could be prevented and thats important.
I do think people are quick to judge and give their opinion of whose to blame though.
Online comments often dont have any reservation because its feels less personal.
Eg: a car accident where there has been a fatality is reported and many people speculate on line about what or who caused the accident causing great distress to those living through such a horrific situation.
There may be someone responsible or it may be an accident that couldnt be prevented and investigating that is important but speculating isnt helpful.

OP. please message Mumsnet and get the title corrected ASAP.

The juxtaposition of posters being smart arses about accents and the actual issue you want to address (which is responses to the death of a toddler in circumstances that must send a shiver down the spine of every parent and grandparent in the country) is just grotesque and wildly inappropriate.

ETA as on second thoughts not funny.

Toddlers running away especially boys I’ve been there I’ve cried several times shouted at strangers to help me fetch my boy as he was running really fast towards the road poor poor family

Exactly.

Also the person who says that people like to reassure themselves that bad things will only happen to other people because they would anticipate every potential disaster is spot on.

What I also find interesting is that people online are quick to make inconsiderate comments about all the ways it could’ve been prevented yet if someone posted “I take my kid to the local park but I keep them on reins so they can’t really play on anything because I refuse to let go as there is a pond a 5 minute walk away down a long alleyway” those same people would probably say the parent was nuts and needed help for anxiety.

What’s happened with this poor boy is seemingly nothing more than a tragic accident. Everyone lives in glass houses and assuming yours is more robust than anyone else’s when it’s made of the same material is foolish.

I’m not clear on exactly how access to alleyway is gotten from the park, but I do hope the local council either gate it off or make any existing gates heavy and self closing now that this possibility has sadly come to light given it is an under 5s play area.

There are a lot of Scottish people on here and I know for a fact that there are a lot who live near me.

I name change regularly and change details as I know I’d be recognised if I didn’t.

I remember the original programme, The Big Time!
And I remember the daft accent too.
Away ye go, hen! 🤣🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Sometimes things happen which are entirely unpreventable or unpredictable. But I would say in the vast majority of cases there is one major or a few smaller elements which, if changed, would completely change the outcome. If we can learn from these situations then we should.

Driving is an obvious one. So many people tailgate and don't actively look for hazards. There seems to be a complete lack of critical thinking.

But I assume this is related to the death of Noah. It's hard to know if it was entirely unpreventable without knowing the family and seeing the situation unfold.

We all risk assess as we go about our lives. We can't completely remove all risk, life wouldn't be worth living. So in that respect some accidents are preventable but the benefits outward those risks. Playing sport for example.

I have seen a petition this morning calling for all accessible bodies of water to be fenced off to keep those with autism safe. I don't agree, not only because it is impossible but I also not think the payoff would be large enough.