Aibu feeling uneasy about men taking little girls to the toilet in the womens toilet?

Nope I don’t want to be treated as precious I just don’t agree with the principle of a grown man going to the women’s when there is no need . It woudnt bother me personally but it would bother women of certain religions or who have experienced trauma . And there is no good reason for it . Therefore I do not agree with it. If you don’t care about random opinions on mumsnet why bother engaging with mumsnet at all btw

There is every reason and very good need.

Fair point, given I don't want to be getting my snatch out in front of other people generally, but kids who don't have the same equipment are much more curious.

Also men's toilets absolutely stink. Don't think I'd want to take a child of any gender in one even before you get to the question of whether they will potentially see strangers' knobs.

They really aren’t honestly . My ds does not stare at women and if he did I woudnt be long telling him not to. Also , little girls are just as inclined to look at women changing as little boys . For the same reasons .

No there is Zero need when a dad is right there beside them watching them vigilantly . Absolutely zero need.

I never said adult women were terrified. I said they wanted privacy.

Why would a little girl be "terrified" of men going about their business?

Why is everyone, especially young children, walking around "terrified"?

If you keep being extreme no one is going to understand your point.

You have not been to every toilet, assessed each one, who is in it, behaviours of adults in there,the children involved, you don’t know the history of adults in there and you can not say a boy going into the men’s alone will be safe or a small girl going into the women’s alone will be safe.

As such parents will safeguard guard as they think appropriate the same as anybody in charge of children.

We are talking about a child going into the toilet WITH a parent here . Not alone .

Just bumping this to reappear on the next page.
This is important.

And it's less thinking a child is a sexual deviant and more the worry that one might get an adverse reaction from the parents to whipping off a swimming costume at the wrong moment or happening to look in the wrong direction when a kid is changing, given how nervous people are about potential pervs in changing rooms and toilets these days (as this thread has made clear, though I guess as a woman it's less likely to happen). And I imagine men having a pee when a little girl is walked in might be equally uncomfortable.

Unless you’ve done a DBS check on every adult in there they need to be regarded as being alone or are schools and childminders just supposed to wave off children into public toilets unaccompanied with no safe guarding checks now?

Of course not.

So parents have the right and need to use it to assess every toilet and the adults using it and its location on an individual basis.

If they feel they need to accompany their child they should do and will.

So where do you suggest little boys get changed when their mothers bring them swimming then ?

The 'gender neutral' individual cubicles at the other pool I visit all have gaps under the stalls, btw. Fine for single men and single women as they're all private, lockable and have attendants in the area; no issues if a dad wants to swim with a toddler daughter or a mum is changing with her young son.

The difference is urinals. I wouldn’t want my daughter going into a men’s bathroom, with men using urinals.
The disabled/baby changing toilet is the answer.

I suggest not having communal changing as the only option generally for a variety of reasons.

How can you assess every toilet and the adults using it ? I am not suggesting the child uses it alone I suggest the parent brings her to the appropriate toilet which is the men’s . What is going to happen with the dad bringing her straight into the cubicle to pee and watching her every move. There could be a deranged escaped murderer hanging around in the women’s jacks for all anyone knows

Is it not the case in many places still that baby changing is still in the ladies' rather than a separate facility? This was the case at my local park and dads were always complaining about it.

Men’s toilets differ and it’s up to parents to decide, not you!!!!!

But if there are none where I live so what do you suggest . Do you suggest I just don’t teach my little boy how to swim in case the women feel uncomfortable with him in the changing room. Cos there are no cubicles as an option. I could write a letter asking the gym to put in some but I’m sure it would be ignored. Should all the little boys who are too small to get changed on their own and don’t have a dad available to bring them just forget about learning to swim ?

If that’s the attitude it’s the same as saying just do whatever you want all the time and screw everyone else . Your little precious pets trump the rights of everyone else it seems

As regards safeguarding they should!

Is your son over the age of 8? That's normally the sensible cut off point, isn't it? And yes, the legal discussions in court over the past couple of years defending women's single sex spaces so that women who need single sex spaces are not affected or excluded by those absolutely determined their personal circumstances entitle them to use whatever space they want and sod everyone else have specifically mentioned this .

Not least, because a couple of obnoxious men promptly tried to insist in court that if a mum could take her four year old son into a women's space then obviously a grown man with a sexual fetish could be there too.

I believe the judge commented something along the lines of don't be so bloody silly if the mother needed to be with a small child while using the space, she was the user of the space, and had obviously to take her child with her. This is not an issue and has never been an issue; boys of about 8 plus are old enough to change themselves.

Honestly being a parent is hard enough. It doesn't matter what toilet the dad uses for his daughter. It would not bother me in the slightest. The cubicles have locks on the door, they are private. Too many entitled busy bodies getting all arsey . Leave the poor man alone so he can look after his daughter as he see fit .

The parent can decide from some options, not freely.

If you decide the preffered toilet would be the one in the shopping center's director's private office, it doesn't give you the right to use it.

Man can't just decide to go into the ladies because he prefers so.
He can choose between sending his daughter in ladies on her own, taking her to gents with him and finding a baby change toilet.