AIBU to think school skirt bans undermine choice rather than equality?

I don't have a problem with skirts being banned in schools especially if teachers don't have to spend time policing skirt lengths. My DD left school 5 years ago and always wore trousers. I don't see trousers as a "male" choice. I'm female and can't remember the last time I wore a skirt or dress. I tend to wear shorts in hot weather.

There's been some dispute on the thread about nurses uniform though. I've spent a huge amount of time in hospital over the last year and can confirm nurses can and do wear dresses. Far more female nurses wore dresses than trousers on the ward I was on.

Lacy thongs and shorts are different - but I refuse to accept that these shorts for example are anything but knickers (like the actual knickers linked too):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boudaner-Scrunch-Workout-Spandex-Lifting/dp/B0D5CBQB57?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=AEV3LYX9SSGMS

stripeandstare.com/products/hipster-knicker-midnight-neon-pink?variant=40718670987324&glCountry=GB&glCurrency=GBP&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Europe_UK_Pmax_KnickersThongs&utm_content=&utm_term=&gclsrc=aw.ds&&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=23962629300&tw_kwdid=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23972286376&gbraid=0AAAAAoVrHUhVr-3YURpnWmqA2fNlGxQio&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2OnUBhC2ARIsACKyfaHFsCrIWFVH_PCgHpJC0PtSy7KMK5_kwwJNBIi_AMkVev_spvqAZAgaAv4QEALw_wcB

Yanbu,
Removing choice because some girls wear skirts too slutty is limiting the freedom of girls because female humans can’t be trusted to behave in such a way that boys can’t control themselves and will leer, upskirt or even assault them. Rules like that are what make girls and women ashamed of their bodies and boys and men think a girl/woman in a skirt is sexually available.

and why can’t boys be allowed to wear skirts? No issue with that in Scotland.

School uniforms should have some choices.

I don't personally think trousers take away femininity or that it makes girls look or feel like men. It's a nonsense argument and takes away from some of the real issues about policing girls/women's clothing and why this particular stance is not ideal for lots of girls.

I do get that girls have been rolling their skirts up for decades, and it is often bordering on inappropriate, and I can see why policing the length gets tiresome. I'd love to say that girls can express themselves as they want but I would ask them honestly why they do it (as a girl who used to do it too, it was a questionable choice).

I do think that having such draconian rules for uniform is a waste of time and energy, at a point where some children have so many absences because of how they feel at school perhaps comfort and self expression would help. It's become stricter than it was 30 years ago and it's about control. Very few work places have strict dress codes these days, and those that do you would choose to join and know about the uniform when you apply. You can be a senior civil servant and wear what you like the majority of the time including any colour of hair you want ( and same is true in many professional jobs in public and private sector).

Whilst I get some of pros of a uniform, this could be achieved more cheaply and comfortably if you allowed plain joggers or dark jeans and just had a school coloured sweater, no logos or labels. Blazers are daft and tailored trousers and shirts are awful for girls (and boys) who are not a standard size. Skirts are at least a bit more forgiving on the hips and I can see why many would want to retain the choice. I bet nobody would be claiming that girls would feel like boys in a pair of jeans.

Girls have always been taking chances with skirts, hormones raging nothing new.

however what is new is safeguarding and a schools job to care for look out for their best interests. Skirts are often shocking in length and no those little shorts are not often worn or they’re removed at school. A few years ago only when they reached yr8-9 they would start to roll, now it’s yr7 on day 1.

schools have a duty to safeguard girls, not so much from boys at school as they’re still mainly interested in football. More to and from school, bus stops etc. Also there is a direct link from skirt height to general behaviour in class.

Parents just get skirts shortened and the game goes on. It is tough trying to enforce and often stance is “up to you”.

If anything happens first point of blame is schools so they’re being proactive. Loss of skirts to trousers? Schools are not to blame.

OP, with respect, I don’t think you’ve been into a secondary school recently…. Regardless of rules, and teachers and parents telling them, girls roll their skirts up and they walk round with the bottom of their knickers on show with their buttocks coming out the bottom. They won’t stop doing this so the result is a ban on skirts. This is a safety issue - they are sitting straight onto chairs rather than on the material of their skirts.

Jeans - too many issues around which brand they are wearing and would promote bullying.
Blazers - very useful for keeping their timetables and stationary in the pockets. Also warm layer in winter.

Do you not think schools already do this? Do you think that a girl should be allowed to choose to wear clothing that shows their arse cheeks if they want to? Let’s be honest here, if a girl is wearing such an item, she knows what she’s doing.

We talk about the choice for girls to wear skirts or trousers. There is no choice for boys to wear shorts rather than trousers. Many boys (including my youngest son who only wore shorts at primary school) would love to have a choice.

i don’t blame schools for changing uniforms to be trousers only. It should mean that less time is spent dealing with uniform issues.

I’m glad that I’m a mum of three boys as I don’t have the added extra of skirt lengths to deal with.

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The girls wear their skirts so short their bum cheeks are hanging out.

Some parents aren’t even trying to stop it. Today Dilly from sort your life out posted a picture of her TWELVE year old in an outrageously short school skirt.

Banning skirts is a consequence of this.

Good question. I don't live in the UK and I have literally never seen a girl in a uniform skirt as short as those frequently mentioned on MN. Why do girls in the UK feel the need to show their knickers when girls elsewhere don't?

Brands - sure, but same with bags, shoes, PE trainers, it will always be something. Plenty available with no branding at all.
Lots of schools didn't have blazers in the 90s and we coped fine keeping those things in bags. My DS is constantly losing the stuff he stores in those blazer pockets. Plus it's a pain to get a proper warm and waterproof coat over the top of them and I'd rather that be the warm layer. They are a good layer on a dry day in autumn and spring I guess. But so are jumpers.

Plenty of countries don't have uniforms as standard and if it's not one thing it's another. Most 6th forms don't have them here. I just think comfort is better for learning than being smart and conforming to sometimes ridiculous rules. The smart tailored thing isn't great for lots of kids.

I don’t get any of the fuss around having to wear trousers. At my daughter’s school 99% of the girls wear trousers as they made the skirt very long and very ugly. I’ve only ever seen about 3 girls in it and she’s in year 10.

I’m a feminist, I’m a mum of teenage daughters (and a son) and I still understand why schools are doing this and I don’t think it’s anything to do with the “asking for it” / blaming girls message.

I’m a straight middle aged woman and I don’t want to see girls’ bum cheeks, it’s nothing to with sexuality and everything to do with appropriate clothing. I would say the same if the boys had their arses hanging out of their trousers and schools brought in mandatory belts (or whatever equivalent analogy you want to use).

I genuinely don’t think some of them know what they’re doing! And that’s even sadder that they’re not aware. They’re just following “fashion” because the other girls are doing it.

I am with you. I hate to see schools claiming to have made the uniform “gender neutral” when actually they have just removed the feminine options. I know plenty people on this thread have already said there’s nothing inherently male about trousers, girls can wear them too. But the point is there is something inherently feminine about skirts/dresses and these are items being removed.

It’s the same as people who think “gender neutral” toys means no blue or pink toys, when actually it should mean all children play with all toys regardless of their appearance or connotations.

When a girl chooses to roll her skirt up, the motivation is often at least partly because they would like male appreciation as well as fitting in with friends. That may be an unpopular opinion but lots of girls and women do a lot of things seeking male approval and teen girls are complex beings. Whilst it's sad that it does sometimes get unwanted attention, I think education is important for moth males and females, from parents and schools.

I personally think girls should be able to wear what they like and what they are comfortable in, but it must be a bit of a nightmare in a school full of teen hormones at times.

I think girls are being blamed for rolling up their skirts and showing their underwear. Nothing more, nothing less.

And they're doing it so males look at their underwear and bums.

Does it? Should children have the opportunity to display their buttocks in school? I think we should be safeguarding children who make such poor choices until they are of an age where they have the ability to understand the consequences of their choices. By taking away their opportunity to do it. Adults are not allowed to show their buttocks in the work place. Is there a reason this should be allowed for underage girls?

I've never seen it where I live (the girls' uniform is a long calf length skirt, or shorts and trousers, and no one rolls), but no one decent wants to see children walking about with their bums (almost) on show, making an immature attempt at either sexually signalling to the boys, or impressing the other girls.

It's inappropriate (especially in a learning environment), and distasteful, just as I wouldn't want to see the boys in too-tight shirts unbuttoned to mid-chest in some childish attempt to peacock.

Children trying to display their bodies in what is essentially their 'workplace', often in an attempt to show how grown up they are and keep pace with their peers, just isn’t appropriate, and the self-objectification by the girls makes me deeply uncomfortable. If they can't dress to reasonable standards, then there's nothing wrong with the option of either trousers or long skirts.

(Although frankly I think all uniforms could be more comortable and practical, while still being smart.)

The way the girls roll the skirts really isn't appropriate. If they were knee height and the girls a bit more civilised looking then yeah I wouldn't see a reason to ban them. But honestly it's not appropriate to run around as a 13 year old with your bum crack showing, so ban is fine for me and I voted YABU

Hopefully none. But you just don't know, hence the safeguarding.

Then there are the hoped for consequences which are not necessarily actually desired because it's pre teen/teen girls.

Then the unintended, which I think nobody thinks is acceptable but that's a separate battle. Y7 boys are oblivious, latter years and people outside school are not. It's not a debate over whether is should be considered provocative, to some boys/men it will be.

If everyone wore a skirt no more than a couple of inches above knee this would not even be a point of discussion.

Well some schools try to enforce skirt length.

Do they might say knee length or level with fingertips when standing straight or similar. This takes up a lot of time and energy - a bit like getting kids to tuck shirts in; they roll it up as soon as they are out of sight and it leads to cars where a pupil might say "what are you looking at my skirt" to a male member of staff who enforce the rule which would be required an immediate safeguarding referral by that member of staff taking up more staff time.

A few schools do not enforce skirt length at all which means you can see the arse cheeks etc. it might mean a year 7 of either sex feels uncomfortable going up the stairs behind a year 10 or 11 but Some people might feel this should be allowed if that's what the girl wants to do.

Some schools ban skirts which removes the skirt length issue but some people don't agree with.

You can always change schools if you feel strongly about it and the others extra cost or travel time etc is worth it.