to expect 51 year old DH not to look at 20 year olds?

How on earth was it lecherous? You seem to br weirdly offended that young women often dress in a way that magnifies their sexual attractiveness, when it’s just a fact!

I’m not sure why you think that’s so outlandish…

A good older man will recognise it’s predatory and inappropriate to be sexual towards a 20-something, and therefore won’t do so.

it doesn’t mean that the man doesn’t find her sexually attractive…. He just controls it. … there’s a “tension” and the decent side of him wins.

I’d argue a man who does this is actually much more virtuous than one who doesn’t have any desire (whether that’s down to low sex drive or being gay), and more honest than those who’ve been dare not admit it to their wives (of course they won’t given the beliefs of some on here).

I’d be interested if a man thinks I’m misunderstanding them here.

You’re right, it is objectifying…

Yes, we all want to known and loved by our friends and partner for who we are at a much deeper level than our looks.

But let’s not pretend, when a woman wears a low cut top and a tight short skirt she does it because she wants to be the object of desire or envy from those she encounters, not to try and show of her personality. She’s not doing it to feel comfortable or out of an abstract sense of fashion.

This isn’t inconsistent with wanting to be loved for something deeper than our looks, but we’re all complex beings, men and women, and we can want both simultaneously depending on the context.

Those trying erase the essential biological drivers that cause men and women to behave the way they do, and assert that “good” men and women transcend, and simply don’t have, these base impulses or desires, are deluded.

Definitely not offended by the women! I dress the same on nights out.

So you admit dressing in a way that accentuates your sexual attractiveness when you go out, and yet you get affronted when men notice?!

As I wrote above, that doesn’t give men the right to make you feel uncomfortable with their leering or to be inappropriately sexual with you, but your posts go well beyond that… and suggest that good men shouldn’t find sexually attractive women, attractive.

I dress for me and the style I like. Same with make-up. It isn’t for men. And yes when older men look at me I call them out. They need to stay in their lane.

I had an ex who was like this all the time. Not just looking but head turning ogling. I found it disrespectful and we were early 30s.I bet it’s not the first time he’s done it. It’s like death by a thousand cuts to your self-esteem.

Been married for 18 yrs and in all that time I’ve never noticed a head turn - my DH might look but he doesn’t stare - I’m the same with younger men.

OK, so you dress up in a style you like and to look presentable, without any thought about looking sexy… That’s fine and normal.

But do you think young women who dress up with their boobs out, high heels and a dress that barely covers their knickers, do so simply because they like the style? No, of course not… they absolutely do it to peak men’s interest.

Okay. But older men shouldn’t look at them in a sexual way.

So you're totally fine with younger men letching, then? That's OK.
Just remember, though, young letches get older.
So I'd have though you'd want to nip it in the bud.

That's OK, though letching is fine if they're young and hot I guess because that's what you're effectively saying here, isn't it?

And no offence but what if the man's just staring into space and you just happen to be in his line of direction?

Or are you so damned attractive that every man simply must be gawping at you.

Im a heterosexual female, I have zero interest sexually in other females.

I sometimes daydream and stare into space. There's probably some woman in my line of vision.
I'm not looking at anyone in particular.

I had a boyfriend who started behaving like this once. It was because he’d lost interest in me :(

I don't even necessarily disagree with this, if a woman is dressed to impress – but blatant ogling is still gross.

Besides, I generally get leched at when I'm in jeans and a fitted t-shirt, without make-up – it's certainly nothing revealing, but (usually older) men will outright stare at me on a not infrequent basis, to the extent that my teenagers have noticed and been disgusted. I'm definitely not hoping for anyone to notice me! It doesn't really bother me (except the couple of times my children noticed), but it is very gross on the men's part.

How the heck do you know they're staring at you and not into space?

I agree that following you specifically as you're the only woman in the room, even then you could be in their line of site and they're looking at something else, may be different but just staring?

I went into a pub last night where I'd knew there'd be a mix of young females and older and young men.
I knew that at a specific time a group of young women would come in.

I made a point of looking at the guys.
Yes there were quick glances their way, no ogling for ages, though.

A lot of this is all men are looking at me is, I think, centre of the universe main character syndrome coupled with a degree of paranoia.

Why might I ask do you think every man is interested in you?

I agree, those men are lecherous and making you uncomfortable, and it’s not acceptable.

How does she know they're staring at her?
Even if they are, how does she know these thoughts are lecherous?

Can she read their minds?
It's a mix of main character syndrome and a bit of paranoia it really is.

If that’s what he does in front of you, what do you imagine he does when you’re not there, what a creep

Because they are apparently quite obviously following me with their eyes, and turning to follow me while staring at my arse - and I don't think it, the people I'm with do. Usually my DH or my mother, who I frequently go shopping with - I'm oblivious until they point out in the car park, or grocery shop that while I was putting the trolley away, or fetching something off a shelf, some old man was ogling me (not realising I was with someone).

I think it's amusing that you think I said 'all men look at me' - I worry about your reading comprehension. I said I often get looks from older men - it's certainly not all men, or all the time, but about once a month some old bloke (probably old enough to be my father) will leer at me with the sort of blatant, pervy look that could be seen from space.

God knows why - I'm entirely ordinary in every regard. About the only things that are noticeable are that I'm tall and have a good figure, but that's hardly stunning, is it?

I live in a small town that isn't exactly packed with people, so when I'm the only person in some old bloke's eye line in the car park, and my mother tells me, "That man was blatantly staring at your bottom while you were putting the trolley away" in a disgruntled tone, it's pretty obvious he was both staring at me, and not thinking pure thoughts.

I find it strange that you think it's so unlikely that a man might stare at a woman in a lecherous way, when you've been arguing all thread that it's normal and common for men to notice and look at women, including your DH.

There's a heck of a difference between a man thinking 'she's nice' while looking at a woman and actively thinking that every man who looks at a woman for longer than a microsecond is a sex pest who is some kind of a pervert - as you seem to think, though.

I also don't get the old man thing here.
Surely it would be wrong for ALL men to look at women-including the young hot ones.

After all, surely ALL men should be reprimanded and the subject of criticism when openly ogling a woman.
Including the young hot ones.
Funnily enough nobody gives them a hard time.
Why do I think you don't, either? 🤔

But how will they learn if nobody tells them it's wrong?
They're going to carry on the habit into middle age and beyond.

So I trust from now on that should an attractive young man be staring at you for longer than a microsecond you will tell him off.
If you don't already do so. Which I doubt you do.

I think that choosing to be obvious in the way you look at a woman, by having your head on a swivel, and making it clear to any onlookers that you are ogling, is distasteful, pervy behaviour. It's unnecessary.

What 'old man' thing? I'm a little confused.

When did I say only old men were gross for ogling women? No men should be ogling women - well, unless perhaps it's a singles' night at a club, and everyone is ogling everyone else!

This, exactly this. As I said earlier, anyone who claims not to have had a quick glance at someone they find attractive is lying. The human brain is programmed to look at things you like, pretty views, nice cars (for some), nice art work, cute animals etc. An attractive human is no different, it is natural to look, but its about not letting that look turn into a stare / ogle / head turn etc.

It's not pervy.
There is nothing perverted about it.
Nothing at all perverted about a man admiring the figure of an adult female.

How you can even tell that he's staring at you for sexual titillation is beyond me.
Are you a mind reader?
Maybe he's just thinking that your arse is too big in those jeans or something.
Not that it is, that's just an example.

It's distasteful and disrespectful, that's all.

If you seriously think that a man-of whatever age- is an actual pervert for staring at a woman for longer than a microsecond then I think that's your problem and nobody else's.

That's a level of distrust I'm glad I don't have.

If you say so.

I think it's a little sad that you're tying yourself into a pretzel trying to come up with other reasons that a man might stare at a slim woman's arse that aren't the most obvious one - that he finds it titillating to look at - when you've literally been arguing the opposite all thread - that men stare because they find the view titillating.

Nothing wrong with a glance/look - I entirely agree with what KoiTetra said just above - but having a long, blatant ogle is undeniably pervy and gross.

I think it's 'sad' that you think perfectly normal sexual attraction from an adult man to an adult woman is 'pervy and gross' but there you go.

Disrespectful and rude to stare for too long? Sure. Pervy and gross like he's some despicable pervert. No.

What's sad about my view that men shouldn't blatantly ogle? (Especially if a woman is with her bloody children, who notice it, for god's sake).

You admit that it's disrespectful and rude, so you clearly agree that men shouldn't do it - so really, while I have a stronger negative opinion of the men, you also think poorly of them.

Personally, I think it's disrespectful and rude because it's perverted (Cambridge: 'considered* strange and unpleasant by most people") and gross (Cambridge: "extremely *unpleasant") to blatantly sexually objectify women who are just going about their lives.

Why do you think it's disrespectful and rude? I'm curious.