BBC at it again

[Chersfrozenface]

www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/20d41ea8-42df-4bcd-92e6-692e204d3894

"Why one woman filmed her transition: ‘I want to show young trans kids it gets better’
Lily grew up in a small village, where she faced misunderstanding and prejudice – but wants to show young trans people like her that things can change"

Time to insist BBC Three does a sympathetic documentary on Keira Bell. For balance, since the BBC claims to be so much in favour of that.

You mean like their balanced work on Reeva Steenkamp's death?
I won't hold my breath.

I want to show kids it gets better. Perhaps the bbc could make a film about me!

Even though I hated my body and sex when I was a child, I have now grown up as a happy successful woman. There was nothing wrong with me and nothing needed fixing that time and loving parents could not provide.

I thought this was going to be Naturebang again - they are really going for it today.

That all looked very straightforward. A year of two’s wait for various prescriptions/appointments. Studying and growing up in between. A young, quiet, socially awkward and isolated Welsh boy living in a rural community becomes a young woman that looks like and sounds like they’ve attended a girl‘s school in England. Totally getting their clues as to what it is to be female by watching You Tube videos. Operation went swimmingly after the hiccup of Covid postponement. Loving boyfriend supporting them through the surgery and not at all bothered by the details in that department. A complete happy ever after. No indication of the gruelling nature of the surgery or the post-op dilation regime - but they were obviously fully aware of that themselves but didn’t want that to divert from their story.

My overiding sense after watching that was - poor father. He looked cowed by his own child (No pun intended - he’s a dairy farmer) The way Lily didn’t answer him when he was trying to order up their food at the drive thru ‘because you didn’t call me by my proper name’ I thought that was callous. Lily was all about Lily - the ego of Lily was all that mattered. All the slo-mo hair flicking, staring off into the distance - the make-up, the clothes.

Interesting that they froze their own sperm or ‘stuff’ as Lily called it.

Watching that made it all look like a walk in the park. Interesting timing.

Wasn't it Keira Bell's lawyer who called for warnings to all these videos, to make absolutely certain that children who are watching know of all the risks?

Is it a new programme? Cynical timing to release/show it right after Keira won her case. Also agree with you OP - that there needs to be a programme about detransitioners now and with midgebabe - so many of us hated our bodies and sex when we were children and/or at puberty - I hated my breasts, I hated wearing a bra, I hated growing pubic hair and having periods - but we grew up and grew out of it. Why isn't that story being told by the BBC?

I saw this and thought it was cynical timing. Who do we complain to?

I'm just watching now.

So far im struck by 2 things

1. Is that honestly what people think we do? What's with all the shoulder wriggling and hip swinging?

1. The sheer emotional reliance on the medication. So much pinned on that first shot. But who else besides them and their little bubble knows or cares I mean I dont mean that in a nasty way but most people have more realistic expectations of things don't they? That kind of excitement can only lead to a crash later on.

That Naturebang program was terrible.

@MondayYogurt

You mean like their balanced work on Reeva Steenkamp's death? I won't hold my breath.

You reminded me, DP and I started watching this yesterday and it was so awfully bias!! Even DP remarked on it and most of this stuff washes over him. Shall I bother watching the rest or does it continue with lots of shocked looking family making inferences about his innocence?

Ok so I just finished.

Feel like alot is missing from the film tbh.

I mean everything was at 100mph and everything all good. That's just not life is it, you would expect some challenges to overcome and questions about whether you were doing the right thing. None of it seemed natural. The family the boyfriend lily themself, all seemed one big act fir the camera. There must be more to lily than make up and an operation, you don't feel you really know any of them its strange.

This is great. We need more programmes that show how very normal trans young people actually are to counter all the scaremongering. It's just a shame it's on BBC3 rather than on BBC1 at prime time.

It would also be good to have a programme about people like Keira Bell, but of course, they are such a small proportion of cases that if you want balance, you will need at least 30 programmes like the one about Lily for every one you have about someone like Keira.

You could also have warnings about any potential side effects or the realities of transition like potential infertility, but of course, it should also include the warning that trans people who miss the opportunity to transition with blockers may experience heightened dysphoria for life possibly leading to severe depression and anxiety, and that they may need extensive surgery to correct some of the effects of their puberty.

You could also have warnings about any potential side effects or the realities of transition like potential infertility, but of course, it should also include the warning that trans people who miss the opportunity to transition with blockers may experience heightened dysphoria for life possibly leading to severe depression and anxiety, and that they may need extensive surgery to correct some of the effects of their puberty.

So, no scaremongering at all then.

There was an earlier programme about the same person in 2017.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08qh5v7/sweet-sixteen-a-transgender-story

www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wales/entries/075ae485-a8d9-46d2-a746-f930e51ea4ca

Are you saying that warning about the effects of puberty blockers is not scaremongering, but warning about the affects of not taking them is? I don't get it.

Thing is anything worth doing has negative sides , and sometimes hurts people. That's a fact and it doesn't necessarily mean that its the wrong decision for that person. Its how it is

I am.thrilled lily is happy. Truly. But when there appears to be no effect on you or your life at all from your decisions then thats what gives the impression its less than honest.

As I said acknowledging sone of the negatives doesn't fir one second mean that you shouldn't do something. It just shows you have a grasp on the reality of a situation

@Positrans

Are you saying that warning about the effects of puberty blockers is not scaremongering, but warning about the affects of not taking them is? I don't get it.

I'll try and help, because there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Taking puberty blockers during puberty, followed by cross-sex hormones (so that a person never reaches full sexual maturity) results in infertility and impaired sexual function. It is right to warn children who are being put on this path that this will be the result of their treatment, and as the recent court case has indicated, it is unlikely that a child would be able to give fully informed consent to this course of treatment.

As for 'the effects of not taking them', the evidence presented to the court by the Tavistock showed that mental health amongst children taking these drugs didn't improve.

“The reported qualitative data on early outcomes of 44 young people who received early pubertal suppression. It noted that 100% of young people stated that they wished to continue on GnRHa, that 23 (52%) reported an improvement in mood since starting the blocker but that 27% reported a decrease in mood. Noted that there was no overall improvement in mood or psychological wellbeing using standardized psychological measures.” (emphasis added)

See paragraph 73 of the judgment.
www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Bell-v-Tavistock-Judgment.pdf

Please share any evidence you have seen about adverse effects of not taking these drugs.

It just seems to me that this childs puberty has been blocked, so they will never mature into an adult. They will remain trapped with the mental capabilities of a child. Lillys Father admits he wanted a tough boy to help on the farm, (not, reading between the lines, the effeminate son he had....) Lilly seems incredibly needy, requiring constant validation, which is setting them up for future failure....yes the drugs & surgery & attention on them was validating, but what next....they don't have a womans body...I am not convinced that would not have been better to go through puberty & accept they are gay, move to a city & live a fabulous life as a gay man. When they went for the surgery I was close to tears, what a horrendous process to go through-& they have now lost sexual function-its inhumane 'treatment'

I am not convinced that would not have been better to go through puberty & accept they are gay, move to a city & live a fabulous life as a gay man. When they went for the surgery I was close to tears, what a horrendous process to go through-& they have now lost sexual function-its inhumane 'treatment'

I think that's what got me really. I mean if you watched a documentary about families who get a puppy, you expect to see waggy tails and lots of love and laughter. But you also expect to see them chew the furniture and pee on the carpet. Does cursing your dog at 7am because you just discovered they ruined your work shoes mean you don't love your puppy or regret your puppy? No. but if you cant talk about your puppy being a puppy should you be getting a puppy?

There was just nothing to indicate they even really understood what path they were on and what the consequences of that path were .Thats what was missing.

@OldCrone sure, here's one using a cross-sectional survey of 20 619 transgender adults aged 18 to 36 years:

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/145/2/e20191725

RESULTS: Of the sample, 16.9% reported that they ever wanted pubertal suppression as part of their gender-related care. Their mean age was 23.4 years, and 45.2% were assigned male sex at birth. Of them, 2.5% received pubertal suppression. After adjustment for demographic variables and level of family support for gender identity, those who received treatment with pubertal suppression, when compared with those who wanted pubertal suppression but did not receive it, had lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation (adjusted odds ratio = 0.3; 95% confidence interval = 0.2–0.6).

CONCLUSIONS: This is the first study in which associations between access to pubertal suppression and suicidality are examined. There is a significant inverse association between treatment with pubertal suppression during adolescence and lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment. These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes.

Using emotive language and the fear of needing surgery as an adult if a child or teen does not set their path early enough is very irresponsible.

Three high court judges would disagree that someone under 16 (dubious even some under 18) has the life experience to make that decision. Why apply pressure for them to do so?

The statistics tell us that left without medicalisation, the overwhelming majority don’t go on to transition.

Not only do the overwhelming majority of children not go on to transition, but it seems an overwhelming sample of older females are bloody glad they were not given the opportunity

I would argue that not warning them of what will happen if they miss the opportunity to transition with blockers is irresponsible given that it has been so devastating to so many trans adults. What they need is to have all the information so they can make informed choices.

I would argue that the intensity of feeling of a teenager with dysmorphia means that they would be unable to comprehend that the feelings may be, and indeed in the vast majority of cases , are transient

Has it though.

I mean some of these adult trans people had wives and kids and careers. And the chance to develop mentally.

Are you saying they'd be happier if their kids never existed or they never had their career ?

They cant know they'd have preferred it . We can never know if we would have been happier being somewhere else or being someone else.

Often the grass isn't as green as you think