woodcraft and gender

[lanadelgrey]

I've name changed.
Regional meeting will be discussing transgender issues. I think I'm on. a hiding to nothing, but have reached a crossroads and want to speak up for a position of being gender neutral and holding a space that is without gender. The whole ethos has been about equality and not thinking that being a girl or a boy equates with any particular value.
Am I mad, will I be drummed out of the group? My sense is that it hasn't been an issue or agenda, for my group particularly and that the implications of queer initiatives like last year's policy and stuff that is being promoted doesn't really feature. Or maybe I peak trans the region?
I'm looking for thoughts from fellow woodies about how to approach this

I'm not sure I fully get what a "space without gender" is

I was involved when I was a kid but am not now, so I can't help you much

However, I'd encourage you to speak out. I doubt that you'll be drummed out of anything (though I don't know), although you might lose the argument.

In what context are they being discussed?

As an organisation working with children I think safeguarding might be the best thing to go on?

I have a gender critical friend involved with woodcraft, and she has been able to air her views without getting drummed out, so you may be surprised. I’m not saying she was met with wholehearted approval, but I believe people were ok with her raising the topic.

I would be very firm about holding the line for the girls rights to privacy, parents rights to know about any prospect of single sex accommodation becoming mixed sex by way of gender identity etc.

Ex woodie here. Thank you for standing up for girls. Woodies meant a lot to me as a kid. We were always safe and happy there.

Please speak up. In this current discussion the rights of women and particularly girls have been drowned out. They are not equal.

I was struck by another poster on a different thread - sorry can’t remember who- who stated about the importance of girls having the right to choose when then see an adult male penis - if they want to - when they are older - ready and with consent. Not to be forced to see adult penises - without consent - when they go to female communal changing rooms. They don’t consent to this. Up until yesterday it would have been deemed as indecent exposure. A crime -not stunning

Yes gender neutral is ideal, and sex is key to dignity , you could also ask how to work with children for whom perhaps gender is more important than sex, so that everyone can be welcome equally ...so avoid being painted into a corner?

It does seem that mention of Paris Lees and Munroe Bergdorf have disappeared so I think things have moved since last summer. Yes, I think the equality for all is the way forward and no compelled speech or action. My feeling is that policies last year simply weren’t thought through

That sounds very encouraging OP.

I do know some people involved with the local woodies groups and I've talked to them about gender ID and nobody got upset, although I'd say that they were kind of on the fence on it. They were interested to talk about it.

We've recently left WCF, and one of the reasons was due to sleeping arrangements on camp - boys could sleep in with the girls if they wanted to .

Ibloodylovewomen

Whether or not it is right, this is nothing to do with the modern gender ID movement. I always used to share a tent with my male best friend, and that was 25 years ago.

Yes I see the shared tent thing as possibly arising quite innocently from the general ethos of "we're all the same". That's not to say it is right. The camps my kid has been on were single sex tents though.

My concerns are 1) that the statement last year referenced Girl Guides and the opinion that the backlash was abhorrent. So as an organisation I don't trust they understand safeguarding. I have attended camps in the past and nobody has asked me to have a disclosure & barring check (I do have one for work).

2. I'm concerned for my child. We specifically sought out Woodcraft Folk because he is gender non conforming and although happy he really stands out at school. I naively believed Woodcraft would be the place for him to feel accepted for himself as he is. I'm concerned that the group will run a training which informs him he can't be a boy because of his personality and choices.

I'm working out how to approach our group leader. Would be interested to know if & how you get on, OP?

I have attended camps in the past and nobody has asked me to have a disclosure & barring check

That is totally against WCF rules. I suspect a lot of groups wouldn't have M/F sharing tents either, a lot of it is down to individual district ethos.

@stillathing, PM me if easier. And agree, gender non-conforming has always been part of woodies - plenty of boys with long hair and tomboyish girls but then if these are seen as signifiers of something else then it stops simply being all welcome here ethos. I see the contradictions, which is why I want to say something.
As to DBS mine are pretty hot on it and on camps I've attended it's been single sex tents and rooms.

You do realise, though, that they have swallowed the glittery unicorn fairy Stonewall claptrap, and officially embrace it. This organisation used to embrace non-conformance with gender stereotypes. Maybe it still does, but it now embraces the concept that any GNC child - or even a child who embraces gender stereotypes - can change sex, and should be supported in this.