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Are you in Devon, Bristol, North Somerset or South Gloucestershire? Tell NHS your view on trans guidelines NOW

(172 Posts)
anotherFOIrequester Thu 02-Jan-20 11:41:47

Happy New Year!

Starting a new thread with the aim of putting all the information in one place as I now have a clearer picture.

Old thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3755711-Help-FOI-request-trans-guidance-in-NHS-in-South-West?pg=1

The NHS CCG for Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire are adopting 'best practice' guidance for trans patients that you can read here:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_5Nov19_item6.4.pdf

There is no consideration of women or anyone else with protected characteristics, eg 'Providing education to other service users in a ward to prevent ignorant or transphobic comments is, if successful, a better solution than having to protect or isolate the trans service user'.
There has been no equality impact assessment, no risk assessment and no consultation with patients who don't identify as transgender.

The guidance is produced by Bristol charity SARI (Stand Against Racism and Inequality) but the meeting minutes below reveal that the lead writer is Cheryl Morgan, director of the Diversity Trust:

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_3Dec19_item3.pdf

Morgan is a transwoman who attended a menopause event and claims the ability to breastfeed:

medium.com/**@elsaegret**/abusive-misogynist-activist-writes-nhs-policy-in-bristol-21dd02cc4c9c

Morgan has also used abusive language to women for many years:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-used-violent-transgender-activist-for-equality-training-x0mktgclw

SARI and the Diversity Trust have form:

medium.com/**@elsaegret**/stitch-up-bristol-fashion-f1eb298e28da

The guidance also features the logos of North Bristol NHS Trust and Devon Partnership NHS Trust. I have FOIs pending with both of them to establish what's happening there.

In response to women contacting the BNSSG CCG, they are now conducting an EIA, for what that's worth.

The good thing is we are disrupting the usual 'under-the-radar' proceedings before this is signed off - this is the time to contact them if you're in those areas, or if you're in Devon, or if you live elsewhere but use those NHS services.

Bristol/South Glos/North Som: bnssg.customerservice@nhs.net

North Bristol NHS Trust: complaints@nbt.nhs.uk

Devon Partnership NHS Trust: dpt.pals@nhs.net

OP’s posts: |
SidJS Thu 02-Jan-20 12:14:38

^ however, anatomy is not always a good guide to what gender a child will be, or even what sex they are ^

How... did... this... happen...

The world is flat...

SidJS Thu 02-Jan-20 12:21:56

I will do - my local area. It states ‘The needs of the (Trans) patient need to be given priority’.

The needs of other patients are not a priority.

Where is the assessment of the needs of other patients...!!

No mention of equality assessment.

anotherFOIrequester Thu 02-Jan-20 12:45:58

Thanks SidJS

For clarity - the Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire NHS Clinical Commissioning Group are now going to carry out an Equality Impact Assessment on this guidance.

Have not heard anything yet from Devon Partnership NHS Trust or North Bristol NHS Trust.

OP’s posts: |
Watermonster Thu 02-Jan-20 16:40:29

They have NOT withdrawn CCG endorsement of the policy. It is 'on hold' only due to pressure to carry out an EIA. Re EIA- it's being carried out by all 3 trusts jointly- (yep the same staff who didn''t think it was necessary, and all of whom missed the safeguarding risks to females).

helpful links
CCG safeguarding policy
bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/BNSSG_Safeguarding_Policy.pdf

Safeguarding should have been considered at every point according to their own policy -but the writer, consulting charity, commissioners, management, staff and the governing body all failed to pick up on any safeguarding risks or impact on women .

safeguarding risk is being male not transgender link
fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/

info on impact of mixed sex wards female victims of sex assault
fovas.wordpress.com/

As another mumsnetter wrote elsewhere (sorry can't find the link ) the guidance presents women who have been raped or experienced domestic /coercive male abuse, and any other female with this same logical and evidence based fear of males when they are vulnerable, and upon which safeguarding policies are based- as transphobes in need of re education- not an environment any scared woman would choose to enter, hugely affecting their access to healthcare.

Some one posted a link somewhere on mumsnet to the Independent report of sex assaults on hospital patients (Birmingham I think). Anyone know?

anotherFOIrequester Thu 02-Jan-20 17:17:45

Watermonster yes quite right, it's definitely not withdrawn, they are just going to do this EIA but still fully intend to adopt it. I agree with your assessment that it will likely be a fudge. I'm worried that my post gives the wrong impression now!

Where did you see that all three trusts are jointly carrying out the EIA?

Also, it's really worth writing to MPs about this. I know of one woman's MP who has written to chief exec of CCG (won't say which area as don't want to out woman or MP!)

OP’s posts: |
SidJS Thu 02-Jan-20 17:40:27

WaterMonster thanks for your message and posting the link about the impact of mixed sex wards on sexual assault victims.

I thought it was powerful - but then I do give a shit
about women/girls and safe spaces - unlike others.

I might also send the CCG the letter in the link.

Perhaps we all should?

This will affect how other healthcare authorities proceed.

Also if something does happen - aren’t the Trusts leaving themselves liable?

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown Thu 02-Jan-20 18:17:43

Thanks AnotherFOIrequester for highlighting this. I'm in one of these areas so will definitely write to them and my MP.

Watermonster Thu 02-Jan-20 18:47:32

anotherFOIrequester- will pm you

lassiters Thu 02-Jan-20 18:49:36

NC as have a few questions! Not done this before so any pointers welcome. Can this be done anonymously or would that have less impact - and if full names are needed is there a risk of this going on my NHS record etc?

lassiters Thu 02-Jan-20 18:55:26

God I'm only a couple of paragraphs in and it's making my blood boil. Where are the sources for stating that Western science "first assumed there were only two types of human - men, who were masculine and attracted to women, and women who were feminine and attracted to men. Anyone outside of that simple binary was assumed to be ill; and needed to be cured.

These days we understand that love may have nothing to do with what sex or gender you are [??!! where did 'love' come from?]. We are also much more relaxed about people's clothing choices. [??!!]"

Manderleyagain Thu 02-Jan-20 19:16:24

Lassiters, if Morgan is the lead writer she seems to be a history buff. This is a blog she wrote. Not sure if I can do links on my phone.

www.historymatters.group.shef.ac.uk/erase-trans-history/

Manderleyagain Thu 02-Jan-20 19:17:21

Op has there been any local press coverage of this? Would it be possible to get some?

SidJS Thu 02-Jan-20 19:19:22

Lassiters Western science "first assumed there were only two types of human - men, who were masculine and attracted to women, and women who were feminine and attracted to men.

They’ve obviously not heard of the Ancient Greeks then...

Watermonster Thu 02-Jan-20 19:21:43

Lassiters.Response can be done anonymously - but doesn't need to be as complaints are kept separate from NHS record.
However I think they have to consider anonymous input too as victims of assault would have good reason to keep anonymity.

You can advise you wish to be consulted in EIA.

XXcstatic Thu 02-Jan-20 19:33:02

I work in the NHS, though not in the regions mentioned here. It is crucial to keep up the pressure on the CCGs: provider organisations like hospitals have to do what the commissioners (CCGs locally, NHS England nationally) tell them. It is the commissioners who direct policy.

Write to the clinical chairs of each CCG, both of whom are GPs:

For Bristol, N Somerset & South Glos, it's Dr Jonathan Hayes, c/o bnssg.customerservice@nhs.net

For Devon, it's Dr Paul Johnson c/o d-ccg.corporateservices@nhs.net

Bear in mind that they are both middle-aged men and probably have no clue about TRAs. I would suggest assuming no prior knowledge of trans issues and taking care not to sound transphobic, because this will make it easier to dismiss you as 'some kind of bigot' (to quote Gordon Brown). They are probably still at the 'Why can't we all just be nice?' stage, if they have thought about transgenderism at all.

I would instead focus on process: you are aware that a new policy is being considered. Could they please provide a copy of the equality assessment? What steps have been taken to ensure that there will be no negative impact on people with other protected characteristics, notably women especially those from cultures/religions that don't allow mixing of the sexes? What is the basis in law for stating that the needs of trans people should be prioritised over other people with protected characteristics?

I would follow up by quoting the EA's provision for single sex facilities.

Finally, I would ask them to explain why Cheryl Morgan was chosen to provide advice, given her history of violent misogyny and link to the Times article - CCGs hate negative publicity and won't want to see themselves criticised in the national media, as happened to the police.

lassiters Thu 02-Jan-20 21:26:32

Morgan is a history buff? Any interest in archaeology? The guidance refers to "the vase in the past" (p16).

anotherFOIrequester Thu 02-Jan-20 22:51:01

bristol-crossroads.org.uk/

As recommended (alongside, of course, Mermaids) for 'TG people, their partners and family' by the guidance... looks like a male crossdressers evening social to me, the little animation top right makes it pretty clear .

Fine, do your thing, but 'as recommended by the NHS'? And for families when it clearly says no under 18s? confused

OP’s posts: |
MsTSwift Fri 03-Jan-20 00:32:49

I know one of those GPs named above

Dolorabelle Fri 03-Jan-20 09:46:39

I'm in the broad geographical area described by the OP - I'll write to my Trust etc - but can I pick your wonderful brains for some advice about what to say?

I'm a feminist, find the TRA stuff really really problematic (makes me angry) and had my job threatened for having "gender-critical" views - huh - I think I"m just a feminist, don't need to add "gender critical".)

I have never (just dumb luck) been sexually attacked nor subjected to domestic violence etc. (I'm white heterosexual & m-class ... won life's lottery).

So on what grounds do I make the case as a patient in the NHS?
There are the general stats of course, and frankly when I have been in hospital with surgery etc, I do not want mixed-sex - I'm not a prude, but I know what most men are like etc etc.

So is this still OK as a general argument - I can't use the "I am a victim of sexual abuse, so I feel vulnerable" etc

(Sorry, if tis sounds flippant - I'm not intending to minimise victims of such abuse - I have been mugged & beaten in the street, but said at the time - well it could have been worse (ie I wasn't raped).

Dolorabelle Fri 03-Jan-20 09:49:12

oopps have just read @XXcstatic 's very useful post. Will follow that pattern.

Thanks all.

SidJS Fri 03-Jan-20 11:17:54

In hospital you are in a state of undress or in nightclothes - where you would normally only be in front of intimates/family members - which places you in a position of vulnerability. People have catheters etc - require help with toileting / personal care / dressing changes etc... other patients know exactly what is going on... sounds... smells... conversation...ward rounds...

Very different having a catheter change behind a curtain with other women in the same bay.

How do they then ensure privacy/dignity/safety in these conditions for both men and women?

anotherFOIrequester Fri 03-Jan-20 16:29:24

Just looking at SARI's annual report for 2018-2019: www.sariweb.org.uk/news-information/annual-reports/

They had three (3) transgender cases. The region they are covering (going from their graphic) has a population of over a million people.

All this training and policy for transgender people seems... disproportionate to say the least.

OP’s posts: |
Manderleyagain Mon 06-Jan-20 15:55:40

AnotherFOIrequester - that Crossroads site is ...well erm… The dress code!!!! No underwear showing etc.

Kit19 Mon 06-Jan-20 16:20:20

fucking hell that booklet is a total word salad

I shall write to MP LIam Fox to ask if he believes sex is "assigned" at birth and to put pressure on the CCG

and the Directors on the governing body

bnssgccg.nhs.uk/about-us/our-governing-body/

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