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Ministry of Justice being sued by a transwoman

(101 Posts)
Easypeasy5 Tue 19-Jun-18 12:19:24

Interesting article about date being set for transwoman suing the Ministry of Justice which is due to be heard in September. You may have already heard about the case earlier in the year but there is a local news article and a version in pink news depending on which publication you would rather read

The full article is at

https://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/news/bath-news/transgender-woman-bath-sues-ministry-1109115

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/12/transgender-prisoner-tara-hudson-ministry-of-justice-discrimination-trial/

but one of the lines in it says:

“Lawyers for the MoJ and government said Miss Hudson “is a matter of biological fact a man” and that being a “transwoman” has no legal significance.”

Will be interesting to see what the outcome is

SuperLoudPoppingAction Tue 19-Jun-18 12:22:06

Do lots of women headbut barmen and get custodial sentences?
I've come across the odd rare violent rampage but nothing quite as violent as that, generally.

SuperLoudPoppingAction Tue 19-Jun-18 12:24:34

"males when they have got a problem, they just let it out with violence."
I tend to agree

Baroquehavoc Tue 19-Jun-18 12:25:18

Does Tara Hudson have a GRC?

spontaneousgiventime Tue 19-Jun-18 12:25:50

So! Being a person presenting as the opposite sex has no legal significance? I'm going to remember that.

GeordieTerf Tue 19-Jun-18 12:26:18

Prisons and the like should be segregated by biological sex with any vulnerable persons kept on safe wards.

There is no practical purpose to separating people on the subjective notion of gender. You may as well split people by music type.

EmpressOfSpartacus Tue 19-Jun-18 12:28:30

I can tell you for certain that no women advertise their 7-inch surprises on sex sites.

Fairyflaps Tue 19-Jun-18 12:30:58

Quote from Tara in the Bath Chronicle article:

"Girls show their emotions, they cry and they self harm, but males when they have got a problem, they just let it out with violence."

Remind us what your prison sentence was for, Tara?

nauticant Tue 19-Jun-18 12:32:29

I've also seen this:

According to court papers seen by the Observer, the MoJ and government lawyers claim they do not see Miss Hudson as female because she does not have gender recognition certificate.

This is despite her undergoing breast surgery and taking hormone medication for years.

Assuming the latter sentence means that there has been top surgery but not bottom surgery, it would be great if squeamishness could be set to one side and it be properly discussed vis-a-vis the law and safeguarding policy whether prisoners with penises should be contained in women's prisons.

Datun Tue 19-Jun-18 12:34:50

Tara Hudson who broke the teeth of a barman and promoted their '7 inch surprise'?

Yeah, totally belongs in a female prison.

According to court papers seen by the Observer, the MoJ and government lawyers claim they do not see Miss Hudson as female because she does not have gender recognition certificate.

There are 14,000 male sex offenders in prison, none of whom have a gender recognition certificate.

Can people really not see where this is going?

If Tara was vulnerable, they should be segregated like any other vulnerable prisoner.

Not put in a female prison to make all those women vulnerable.

This shouldn't even have to be said,
ffs.

loveyouradvice Tue 19-Jun-18 12:36:22

This sounds like it is a very important case..... I imagine a lot of money will be going into it

Really interesting - and all about
1. How important having a GRC is
2. impact of having a P-haver in a women's prison on other inmates I imagine?

watching with interest

NatashaGurdin Tue 19-Jun-18 12:36:26

Baroquehavoc Tue 19-Jun-18 12:25:18
Does Tara Hudson have a GRC?

I don't think so because the report mentioned that lack was the reason for the action taken by authorities?

Maryzsnewaccount Tue 19-Jun-18 12:36:53

Tara Hudson still has a penis, as far as I know. Therefore a male prison is the only appropriate place. If TH had a GRC TH would have been put in a female prison despite having a penis, which is in my opinion dangerous to women prisoners.

Personally I think "living as a woman", taking hormones and having breast implants, and even having a GRC means absolutely nothing in comparison to the danger of locking women, often vulnerable women up with a person with a penis (which they appear to enjoy using).

Baroquehavoc Tue 19-Jun-18 12:37:51

This prompted a national outcry as more than 150,000 people signed a petition in just seven days calling for Miss Hudson to be moved to a female prison.

This is going to be used as proof that the public is behind this. I know several people who signed assuming that Tara was transexual, had meaningful surgery and didn't know that they were found guilty of a violent crime.

Hoppinggreen Tue 19-Jun-18 12:39:16

Man goes to a male prison, don’t see the issue

Norther Tue 19-Jun-18 12:39:18

If Tara was my child, I wouldn't want them in a normal male prison. You can imagine the horror they would face. Even though I'm GC I dont want individuals to suffer. Maybe a specialist trans wing could be developed.

Maryzsnewaccount Tue 19-Jun-18 12:40:16

Though am I going to be deleted for mentioning a specific person's anatomy? I don't see how we could have this conversation if we can't mention anatomy.

Because TH has mentioned it, and using it, so pretending it's not there means that it's not possible to specifically state why TH should not be locked up with women.

DJLippy Tue 19-Jun-18 12:41:24

MoJ and government lawyers claim they do not see Miss Hudson as female because she does not have gender recognition certificate.

The law is an ass. No male can ever become a female. Why is the law colluding in a lie?

GeordieTerf Tue 19-Jun-18 12:43:01

I'm embarrassed to say that I signed that petition myself, long before I peak transed blush

BettyDuMonde Tue 19-Jun-18 12:44:22

Various collected info here:

transcrimeuk.com/2017/10/30/tara-hudson/

Norther Tue 19-Jun-18 12:45:50

We cant go on the GRC as indicating a 'genuine' case. The worst examples that we fight are educated and articulate and know how to play the game - these are the late transitioners. Homeless day centres are full of people on the game who have been living this way all their adult life and often before, bought hormones off the internet because they dont trust authority or cant articulate their needs and they make their money because they dont have bottom surgery. We should not use surgery as the dividing line.

Datun Tue 19-Jun-18 12:46:24

According to the press Hudson has been living as a woman almost their whole life. In which case why no GRC?

Is it because they were refused one? Is it because they don't fit the criteria? Do they not have gender dysphoria. Presumably not, cos 'seven inch surprise'.

Based on Blanchards typology, this would make perfect sense. No diagnosis, no GRC. Indictating that the gatekeeping is working and is vital.

Yet again, this shows the need for discussion about what constitutes transgenderism. And whether or not things like AGP should even be given houseroom.

Baroquehavoc Tue 19-Jun-18 12:48:03

This case was the first I remember when 'anatomy' became an issue. Taras mother was very vocal stating that Tara anatomy was not a threat after years of hormone use. When the contents of the personal ads were questioned, it changed to being disrespectful to talk about someones anatomy.

But it's still ok to talk about tits.

ScienceIsTruth Tue 19-Jun-18 12:48:53

TH still has a penis, that I presume is fully functioning. TH should NOT have been transferred to a FEMALE prison because TH is still legally and biologically a MAN. TH will always be a biological man, but as TH didn't apply for a legal document to change their gender, TH is ALSO still a MAN in the eyes of the law.

I hope they laugh this 'case' out of court.

What a waste of money and resources that would be better spent elsewhere on something that actually matters.

Norther Tue 19-Jun-18 12:50:04

Datun

They just never would have applied. See my point before. Lots of marginalised people never get a passport. They are intimidated by paperwork. The GRC is a red herring.

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