Ministry of Justice being sued by a transwoman

[Easypeasy5]

Interesting article about date being set for transwoman suing the Ministry of Justice which is due to be heard in September. You may have already heard about the case earlier in the year but there is a local news article and a version in pink news depending on which publication you would rather read

The full article is at

www.bathchronicle.co.uk/news/bath-news/transgender-woman-bath-sues-ministry-1109115

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/06/12/transgender-prisoner-tara-hudson-ministry-of-justice-discrimination-trial/

but one of the lines in it says:

“Lawyers for the MoJ and government said Miss Hudson “is a matter of biological fact a man” and that being a “transwoman” has no legal significance.”

Will be interesting to see what the outcome is

If it is determined that prisoners with penises (regardless of GRC) are not going to be housed in women’s prisons I would bet any money that the rate of male prisoners suddenly deciding (once already in prison) that they are really transladies, will fall away to vanishment.

Chatty - I wondered earlier how many men in Ireland who are in prison are identifying as women, given that you are housed according to birth sex there. Sweet FA would be my guess

I do hope this goes to trial.

I remember when the TH case first appeared in the news thinking about all the people (mostly women) who are screwed over when something happens to their partner, and even though they have been "living as a married couple" for many years, because they don't have a "piece of paper" (aka marriage certificate) they aren't able to claim life insurance, benefit from tax breaks, make decisions on end of life treatment etc etc etc. Sometimes a "piece of paper" is more meaningful than the phrase suggests, and surely a GRC is one of these instances. If you want the privileges of marriage / gender reassignment / new citizenship / parental responsibilities you get the piece of paper sorted out as a priority

Although this study is very limited, it does confirm that there are a number of transwomen being held in men's prisons in Ireland

I bet none of them transitioned inside.

So in September 2015 Holly told the Mirror: "When I'm modelling for glamour shoots I feel like the sexiest girl alive, no-one has any idea that I'm actually a bloke."

but in December 2015 Holly (now called Tara) told the Mail that " They treated me differently because I was a female in a male prison. It's as simple as that."

TH seems to be mightily confused - not least because TH was apparently called Kaspar as a child in September but Raymond Aaron David in December.

Orchid, Hudson seems to use an awful lot of names!

We’ve got two childhood names (Kaspar and Raymond) and then, Holly, Tia, Tara and Dannii! No wonder they didn’t want to shell out for a gender certificate and female passport, either they couldn’t decide or for some reason or another it suits them to change often.

I think I might have signed that petition too How long ago was it?

I think I might have signed that petition too How long ago was it?
October 2015 (Change Org) See, eg: Human rights lawyer fears Tara Hudson may "kill herself" after trauma of men's prison - Gay Times

Gosh, that is a fairly long list of people who would not meet the MN FWR talk guidelines on transgenderism!

• Lawyers for the MoJ and government
• Governor of the women's prison
• Body of prison governors
• and of course, Tara Hudson themselves

We cannot say what they can say. So do we really have free speech? (rhetorical)

Anyone who signed the petition did so because of their own compassion and were unaware of all the facts. GC feminists allmost invariably supported transexuals in the good old days.

Frankly, all 'TW' should be housed in estates according to their sex, and segregated into trans wings for their own safety. Although, looking at the various statements by Hudson, the male estate was preferable regardless. We can also see how problematic it is relying on a GRC to determine eligibility, because genital surgery is not a requirement. Nor should there be any male guards in women's prisons.

The other thing that is not mentioned, is that TW are also in danger from other TW, as well as men.

TH is not a transsexual, though. We thought TH was. I still support transsexuals. I support other transgender people too, though not to the extent of extending the definition of woman to include them in all sex-segregated spaces or in situations which are designed to remedy discrimination on account of birth caste.

If the prison services are forced to accept self id rather than GRC, that would make a big difference to the female prison population. There are usually about 80,000 male prisoners and 4,000 women. If 1% self id, that's potentially 800 extra spaces needed in women's prisons.

glass - is that tweet screenshot of "Tia Star" actually TH?

If so, those here defending transsexuals vs transgenders are backing the wrong pony, because TH does belong in the TS camp, due to sexual orientation (ie towards males). Just because they are TS, does not mean they cannot cause problems for women. Just go to the Pride after-event, women's toilets (and I am talking about 25 years ago).

We’ve got two childhood names (Kaspar and Raymond) and then, Holly, Tia, Tara and Dannii!

Bit tangential but TH was a sex worker so many of these names would probably be lifted from escorting profiles. Indicative of normal sex industry practice rather than some pathological name changing obsession.

LaSqrrl I must be 'backing the wrong pony' then, because I'd assumed a transsexual was someone who 'changed sex' (ie, 'bottom surgery') to present as the opposite sex. I didn't think it had anything to do with sexual orientation. Does it?

In any case, I remain to be convinced that any male who goes to the enormous trouble of what used to be called sex change surgery is much of a threat to the female birth caste.

It used to be clearer years ago, there was more of a clearer division based on sexual orientation (I say it was clearer, because ten years ago you would not have heard a transsexual call themselves transgender, but now some do, but that may be more of a bandwagon thing).

It is true that (male-sexually-attracted) transsexuals are the group more likely to have genital surgery, but there was always that sub-set of the male-sexually-attracted males that did not (ie the L*boys), of which TH seems to be one (very proud of 7" surprises). Of course there were other subsets in the gay community that still thought of themselves as men/male; drag queens.

Transgender males are in the majority, sexually attracted to females. A small percentage of those may have genital surgery. Some are A*P, in fact, there is a touch of that in some TS.

Basically I don't fully go along with Blanchard, but he was onto something by trying to classify categories. I think the problem lies with trying to make them absolute categories, when in reality there are some shared grey areas going on.

And "OS" transsexuals can be just as misogynist as some of their gay male buddies as well. ie they don't get a free pass on misogyny just because they are gay males or transsexuals. So whenever I hear the "OST" on this board, I cringe.

BeyondSceptical Tue 19-Jun-18 17:00:07
If there are people here who signed the petition and have since changed their minds, and it's looking likely that the petition will be used to prove the public support TH, it might be worth those who did sign writing a letter to the MoJ explaining why they withdrew their support?

I think if anyone has the link to the original petition you can withdraw your signature from it?

This will highlight self id hugely.

This will highlight self id hugely.

Hopefully. Although I remember when this case hit the news. It took one person on here (I'm sorry I forget who) moments to find taras online presence, yet these details never really hit the media. I even remember it being discussed on women's hour, and Paris lee glossed over the actual offense Tara committed and the presenter didn't think it was relevant to mention the violence.

Here's the link to the petition. Interesting reading... But the petition seems closed now and I can't see any way to withdraw a signature.

another inmate there who had just started transitioning. I’m not saying it in a bigoted way - but compared to me, she looked like a man in a dress. It was a joke

So you're more of a woman the more you look a stereotypically feminine way. Even Tara isn't actually on board with the 'if you say so, then it's so' logic of self-identification.

So you're more of a woman the more you look a stereotypically feminine way. Even Tara isn't actually on board with the 'if you say so, then it's so' logic of self-identification.

This comes up so often and it's so tiresome. If a specific group of males want to play I'm The Fairest Of Them All among themselves then that's up to them, but if they could leave women out of it that would be great.