What do you use the womens’ toilets for?

[FancyRibbon]

Inspired by recent posts on the Radio 4 thread.
I realised that the whole ‘Why do you even care who is pissing in the cubicle next to you?’ argument against single sex toilets underestimates how I think many women actually do use/need the ladies’.

It’s not just about the cubicle being private to you as an individual woman (though this is really important), it’s also about knowing there is a door behind which there is a women-only space that can be really important. Some of that is specifically about it NOT being a male space.

So eg what I use the women’s toilets for is:

• pissing, crapping, dealing with periods, POAS
• a place to cry especially at work when you don’t want anyone else to see
• a place to go and just sit and feel exhausted because your baby is not sleeping and you’re back at work

-as above washing and drying breastmilk leaks on clothes which involving standing about with some stuff off

• a place to sort out falling down tights and gappy shirts, -against adjusting/taking off clothes possibly while checking in a mirror
• somewhere to talk to other women privately knowing men won’t be around
• in bars and clubs, a place to get away from male hassle

I just don’t want to share women’s toilets with men. Self ID will be making that not my choice any more. I feel that I won’t be able to just avoid gender neutral toilets and look for a women’s any more, because women’s toilets won’t exist and campaigning for them will be hate speech.

Changing clothes - sometimes you realise your skirt/trousers/shirt has a stain/tear and you need to change

Hiding/crying/composing yourself - useful if you've had a bollocking at work or bad news

Doing your makeup

Taking a private call when your kid calls from school because they are upset or sick

Please dont use the term 'Cis' - it's a made up useless piece of twaddle to 'other' women.

it's correct that there aren't currenlty laws about who can go i which toilet
but with self ID women won't be able enforce the current practice, without fearing the label 'transphobic'

"Not all of these reasons apply to cis women. And a lot of them apply to trans women."

So what? I'm not going to do any of these things in a space shared with ANY males, trans or otherwise, they aren't more oppressed/vulnerable than natal women, and even if they were, that doesn't mean that we should be lumped all together in one space, we are not the same.

A Trans woman isn't a woman though (they are a trans woman - or in other words transsexual or transvestite). Not physically, biologically or through lived experience. Let them use the label as 'other woman'. I dont need one thanks.

Hands up who on this thread self IDs as a ciswoman?

RealCursedE please dont misslabel those of us not saying "me!"

Ta

When I first saw it I thought it was some weird feminist solidarity thing (a variation the word 'sister').

I only use public toilets for bodily functions and maybe checking my hair/ makeup inma night club or something. Always have done.
And I'm a woman, not a cis woman.

I’m just not sure if enlightened men who think it’s just TERFs Making A Fuss about Sharing have any idea what women want and need to do in women’s toilets.

Rinsing mooncups
Buying and disposing of sanitary protection
Rinsing clothes from menstruation
Miscarriages (most miscarriages happen on the toilet)
Morning sickness, on the hour every hour
Waters breaking, the first place you head to is the loo
Breastfeeding
Expressing milk
Changing breast pads
Pregnancy tests
Fertility kits

Not all women, will do all these things, all the time. But most women will do any number of them.

Transwomen won't be doing any of them.

It's quite difficult to define the word privacy. Especially when you are being asked to justify it by people for whom it's not a problem.

But other women have that shared bond, if not the exact shared experience. There is an understanding, generally.

It's certainly not something that I would want witnessed by men.

I'm not cis.

I go to the women's loo to get away from men.
To sort out menstruation related issues /hope I can borrow a tampon from another woman
To make a phone call /ring a taxi away from whoever is mithering me
Sort out wonky bra straps that are digging in.

None of which I want to do in the company of males, thanks.

Women have only had access to sex segregated toilets for a relatively short time, until then they basically couldn't function in society. They are important to us.

All words are made up. And no it's not othering cis women any more than trans women is othering of me.

Most women here don't identify as cis . Please respect our identity

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/single-sex-toilets-unesco-un-international-womens-day-period-a8244776.html

Access to sex segregated toilets are important to women and girls all around the world. We share biology.

Sekf UD does not impact what bathrooms you get to use. Sorry? . If there's an obvious man in the ladies at present; he can certainly expect to be schullhauled out.

All words are made up
And you're free to make up any words you want to. You're not free to force other people to use them though. On this forum the word 'cis' is recognised as offensive and can be reported to the mods.

What people said above, plus:

• throwing up when pregnant
• sorting out blocked ducts while breastfeeding
• washing breastmilk leaks off clothes
• drying clothes under hand dryers afterwards
• washing menstrual blood off hands after changing tampons

When I'm sitting there with my knickers around my ankles I feel very vulnerable. Maybe I've even got my fingers up my fanny trying to sort out a menstrual cup or tampon. Or maybe I'm phoning the Women's Aid number on the poster inside the he door.

No, I do not want a male-bodied adult anywhere near me at that time.

There may be no law on who can use which bathroom, but the custom is there for a reason.

There is no reason for a male to be present in a female toilet area (barring, of course, paramedics, cleaners, etc) therefore the presence of a male rings alarm bells and increases vulnerability and fear.

Why women go to the toilet in groups, why women feel vulnerable and why safe, sex-segregated toilets are necessary

As I understand it, at the moment, the equality act specifies that schools/workplaces/etc. must provide single sex toilets, unless they are self-contained (i.e., one room with a wash basin, a loo, and a lock). Self-ID makes this pointless.
I can tick at least 75% of Datun’s list.

I am a woman. Please don't use the term cis, it is a nonsense.

I'm perimenopausal and my periods these days can become suddenly heavy. I have used public toilets to change.

Or maybe I'm phoning the Women's Aid number on the poster inside the he door.

Exactly. Why do rape refuge centres put their posters in the ladies loo?

Because they know that that's where women go. To get away from men.

And whilst there is no such thing as a safe space, the ladies is often a place of sanctuary for women.

What really irritates me about this argument is it seems to assume a whole bunch of dangers for women, some nebulous force. It's not nebulous, it is male violence and harrassment. By men.

Documented, evidenced, studied.

The very people who are now insisting that being a woman is a feeling in a man's head and therefore they should have access to women and girls with their knickers round their ankles.

All words are made up. And no it's not othering cis women any more than trans women is othering of me.

With respect, given that trans women are not women, an 'othering' prefix is necessary. No such need with people who are women - 'women' is sufficient.

I do not identify as 'cis'.

Not all of these reasons apply to cis women.

Do not coercively assign the label "cis" to women you do not know. In particular, never coercively assign it to me.

I think it fairly clear the OP was talking about toilets as single sex spaces. Therefore, ejaculator opinions not required.

All words are made up. And no it's not othering cis women any more than trans women is othering of me.

I get that you’re here to stir, but you expect a courtesy from women that you don’t observe yourself. I don’t have any truck with gender. I’m not interested in being confined to the ‘pink’ box and I certainly don’t conform to the stereotypes associated with my biological sex. If you don’t want to be referred to as a man, how about you stop misgendering women who utterly reject gender stereotypes, which is what “ciswoman” is. “Woman” is just fine and doesn’t assume the other person’s gender. If they’d rather to go by ciswoman, I’ sure they’ll tell you.