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Guardian article - gender critical.

(147 Posts)
AssignedPerfectAtBirth Fri 06-Oct-17 08:34:15

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/06/feminist-linda-bellos-women-trans-male-violence

Brilliant and important article. Kudos to the Guardian for printing

ErrolTheDragon Fri 06-Oct-17 08:39:16

Excellent piece, and hope that the Guardian is coming to its senses at last.

badbadhusky Fri 06-Oct-17 08:46:39

It is excellent. It also says they'll be turning the comments on later - presumably after the moderators have limbered up and finished their shreddies.

Blanchefleur Fri 06-Oct-17 08:55:34

I was just coming on to post this! Great article which covers a lot - the no platforming of Linda Bellos, Murray Edwards, punch a terf, radical feminism and male violence.

So many great points made. Let's hope that the Guardian takes note of the following:

The term “Terf” and the violent rhetoric that often accompanies it only serve to obscure the reality: women and trans people alike are targets of male violence. To make radical feminists the villains is to blame men’s violence on women’s thoughts.

and

being made to think difficult thoughts is not the same as being harmed.

and

These questions are not raised from cruelty or bigotry, but necessity.

As I write this, the article is not yet open for comments. It will be interesting to see what that brings.

hackmum Fri 06-Oct-17 09:36:34

It's great to see this in the Guardian after its recent fairly dodgy record on trans issues. Once the comments open, I think people should comment if they can, in a measured and reasonable way, as I strongly suspect there'll be an invasion of TAs making a co-ordinated attack on Claire.

Anlaf Fri 06-Oct-17 09:43:21

Great article - Claire blogs/tweets as Sister Outrider and is always worth following:

twitter twitter.com/ClaireShrugged

sisteroutrider.wordpress.com/

Terfing Fri 06-Oct-17 10:00:37

Let's get ready to comment positively!

I love Sister Outrider. She's a brilliant, informative writer. I follow her on Twitter. She always makes great points. smile

Anlaf Fri 06-Oct-17 10:36:22

She's a brilliant, informative writer
Yep, so true!

Tom Holland (late of Shon faye twitter bunfight) is on the case:
twitter.com/holland_tom/status/916205965229338624

BTW I will dump this here - doc on Linda Bellos and others on feminist activism. They were very angry! although they managed somehow not to beat up any 60 year olds
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nRwdi8ZWqg

Natsku Fri 06-Oct-17 11:15:56

Really good article, have shared it on twitter, hoping my friend who I had a reasonable debate with about trans issues (he's very much fallen for the TRA line of reasoning and shouts about terfs etc.) when I shared another article might read it and think on it

theendisnotnigh Fri 06-Oct-17 11:35:18

At last! The Guardian's deliberate silencing of women over Transgender issues has been a disgrace for a respected newspaper. However, one article does not make ethical journalism. It will take more than this for me to reinstate my subscription.

MacaroonMama Fri 06-Oct-17 13:51:29

So relieved to read this! We need much more of the same from the Guardian. I want them to turn the comments on now so we can get in first with all the positive stuff smile

jellyfrizz Fri 06-Oct-17 14:12:07

*impatiently waiting for comments to open....*

DJBaggySmalls Fri 06-Oct-17 14:13:10

It will be interesting to see the comments.

Terfing Fri 06-Oct-17 14:19:09

I do think that The Guardian's stance on transgenderism has lots them a lot of readers and money. I also think that they know this, which is why they've laid off the pro-trans articles recently.

The very few gender critical articles they have published have been outside opinion pieces, meaning that they're not willing to put their name onto it just yet. However, I think these articles are to test the waters. If they get a positive reaction, they may change their view entirely...

YetAnotherSpartacus Fri 06-Oct-17 14:19:27

I wonder if they will really allow comments?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 06-Oct-17 14:22:06

being made to think difficult thoughts is not the same as being harmed

This I thought was the most important part. Surely, at uni thinking about difficult concepts is kind of the whole point....

Lottapianos Fri 06-Oct-17 14:26:45

'being made to think difficult thoughts is not the same as being harmed'

Loved this. There's so much of it around. It was the same in John Harris' video piece on the Guardian website about Brexit - as soon as he suggested to Leave voters that it might not all be sunshine and roses, they turned nasty and walked off. People are becoming more and more scared to think and have their opinions and feelings challenged

Good article and I'm glad they published it

hackmum Fri 06-Oct-17 14:46:07

Terfing: "I do think that The Guardian's stance on transgenderism has lots them a lot of readers and money."

Do you really think so? I think the people who care about this issue are in a minority. I honestly don't think most people have cottoned on yet to what's happening.

The main reason the Guardian is losing money is they provide a free website with an enormous amount of content, while about 80% of online advertising revenue goes to Facebook and Google.

nauticant Fri 06-Oct-17 15:59:04

It's not simply down to focusing on trans rights but I think the past decade of ridiculous navel-gazing articles based on fringe identity politics has turned a lot of people off reading the Guardian.

They did rally with their magnificent phone hacking work but that's a fair few years ago now.

CocoaIsGone Fri 06-Oct-17 16:11:18

'Being made to think different thoughts is not the same as being harmed'

My first response was that no-one can make you think different thoughts. In a reasoned debate, views are aired, it is up to you what you pick up, what you agree with, what you disagree with. That is healthy debate. Not everyone thinks the same, nor should they be made to.

My second thought is that of course people can be made to think different thoughts, it is the essence of coercive control and psychological abuse. It is when a dominant person or group starts misusing language, re-writing history or altering meaning to make you start to doubt your reality.

I have not read the article yet, but I don't think women are the dominant group shaping the language, discourse or thoughts.

retreatwhispering Fri 06-Oct-17 16:33:52

At last.

And I'm looking forward to binge-reading Sister Outrider's blog.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 06-Oct-17 16:42:45

'Being made to think different thoughts is not the same as being harmed'

You have a point, cocoa - I think that statement should be more like 'being made to think about different ideas to your own is not the same as being harmed'.

Of course, it's extremely harmful not to ever engage with other viewpoints.

hingedspeculum Fri 06-Oct-17 16:43:20

"Hearing different thoughts" would have been a better phrasing of that sentiment. Heuchan isn't trying to indoctrinate any audience, just for them to be exposed to another viewpoint.

soapboxqueen Fri 06-Oct-17 16:53:40

They've still not turned the comments on. I wonder if they've chickened out.

badbadhusky Fri 06-Oct-17 16:57:54

I wondered that, soap.

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