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(805 Posts)
msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 16:20:05

Tentative!

Um, the way I see it is that a lot of porn (I have heard) is appallingly violent and degrading for women. This stuff, ideally wouldn't exist and should be banned (how, I don't know, but ideally).

However, the porn that I have seen or enjoyed is not. I wouldn't enjoy porn that is degrading.

So, why is all porn bad? (in some people's opinions?) If it isn't degrading and is equal in its approach, for the entertainment of others, then I don't see any harm.

Is the argument that you don't get the 'good' porn without the bad?

Don't flame me please, I really want this to be a considered conversation.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 17:21:04

grin maybe no one has an opinion on this?

dittany Thu 02-Sep-10 17:33:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 17:34:53

I'm trying to distinguish between the violent, degrading stuff and the non-degrading consensual filmed sex.

lifeissweet Thu 02-Sep-10 17:36:38

At the risk of being seen as joyless and prudish (I am neither), I am with Dittany on this. I am no expert on porn but what constitutes 'good' porn? Ok, it might be the kind of porn that looks consensual and, maybe, no one looks to be physically hurt by it, but how can you possibly know that's the case?

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 17:37:47

Well I guess I don't know. So are you saying because I don't know then I should assume it isn't?

dittany Thu 02-Sep-10 17:40:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 17:44:36

I don't have a clue about producers of porn.

Some people are very willing to degrade themselves in exchange for money, I'm thinking big brother contestants!

Perhaps it depends on what you define as sexual torture. What is your sexual torture may not be someone else's I guess. This doesn't mean there aren't legal definitions of course.

lifeissweet Thu 02-Sep-10 17:44:57

I think the industry is well known for exploiting women - and in a way that is often not obvious from watching the stuff. I can't imagine a life where I did that for a living and I would hate for a daughter of mine to do it too (I have none, thankfully, because I would worry for them).

Apart from all that, viewing porn of any kind is feeding the industry that is undermining women's progress in the world and wildly confusing our young people about what women and sex are about.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 17:46:01

I agree with what you're saying in respect to some porn, but surely not all of it?

dittany Thu 02-Sep-10 17:48:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lifeissweet Thu 02-Sep-10 17:52:12

I would add psychological torture - the sort of coercion that is not immediately obvious. The sort that makes women take mind-numbing drugs to block out what's happening to them. The may appear to be having straightforward sex and consenting, but you still don't know whether they are being very damaged.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 17:53:40

Well, I don't necessarily agree that people in porn are being degraded for money. I made that comment in response to your judgement that they were being degraded for money.

I haven't watched porn for years actually, but I used to. I guess I'm talking about the kind of porn where it is just sex, no violence or misogyny (which I agree, is out there though I haven't personally subjected myself to watching it).

In my OP I tried to make the distinction between 'bad' porn where all the sexual torture stuff went on, and 'good' porn which is more like what I described above. I.e respecting another persons humanity

dittany Thu 02-Sep-10 18:01:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lifeissweet Thu 02-Sep-10 18:05:17

I, personally, have never seen porn that is not degrading to women, or centred on male fantasies. I am no expert and haven't seen much, but there seems to be a lot of focus on penises and blow jobs and lots of plastic looking women with that acceptable porn body that seems to have taken over our culture (skinny with massive breasts).

None of that does anything for me.

If you have found something that is not degrading to women in how it portrays them and that is more tailored to a woman's sexual experience and that you know for sure has not been made by exploiting anyone at all then I would like to hear about it.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 18:07:30

If it is degradation and objectification of women's bodies, it is of men's too. Seeing as it is in the sex context and not in the workplace or outside of the bedroom then I'm not sure that is a problem.

I have read some feminist arguments against porn and I wholeheartedly agree with them in reference to torture porn. I'm not sure it applies to softer core porn.

I'm not sure I'm out to defend it. My position is that I'm not sure that all porn is bad and seeing as there are a lot of people who disagree with me, I am out to discuss this with them to see if I'm missing something I guess. I haven't done a lot of things but I nevertheless can have an opinion on them.

dittany Thu 02-Sep-10 18:12:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 02-Sep-10 18:18:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 18:21:16

I agree that Nuts is degrading and not ok.

Can we accept that I'm not talking about violent porn?
With that in mind, how is it more degrading to the woman than the man? Simply because she is being penetrated? If so, that is like saying all sex is degrading.

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 18:22:24

SGM, I dunno, am I thinking of porn that doesn't exist? Where it's just 2 people having sex for fun?

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 18:22:50

natch - but being paid!

StewieGriffinsMom Thu 02-Sep-10 18:28:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany Thu 02-Sep-10 18:28:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GypsyMoth Thu 02-Sep-10 18:29:47

and what about male porn?? is that viewed the same way?

msrisotto Thu 02-Sep-10 18:38:46

The woman is acting as a proxy too. It depends on the viewer.

I classify Nuts as different because that is solely about the objectification of women for men whereas porn can be for both men and women.
Again, how is just the woman being degraded (if you view sex on film as necessarily degrading)?

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