A level choices (poss looking to physics at uni)

[Sadik]

Firstly, we're in Wales, & still have the AS / A2 system, & it remains common to at least start with 4 subjects. College will definitely be happy for dd to do this.

DD is trying to figure out whether to take Physics / Chemistry / Maths / Further maths, or whether to go for Physics / Chem / Biology / Maths.

At the moment, she thinks it most likely that she'll want to study physics at uni, but until recently she was very undecided between physics and biology/life sciences. Obviously the 3 sciences choice keeps that option open. So the question is, how important is further maths if you want to study physics? (She's very much a straight A* student in science/maths subjects, and I imagine will be looking at Cambridge natsci / Imperial / Warwick sort of level as an aspirational choice at least.)

[CMOTDibbler]

When I did Physics, it wasn't required to do further maths, but tbh those of us without it (my school didn't offer it) did find things harder, though it evened out

[Allthebestnamesareused]

If he definitely wants to do Physics the definitely Maths and Further Maths plus one other

[PookieSnackenberger]

I think Further Maths is strongly recommended. It also makes more sense in terms of workload; Maths, Further maths, Physics plus one more will be easier to manage than 3 sciences plus maths.

That said, my oldest son did Physics at uni without Further Maths but he had to get up to speed in some areas initially that would have been covered by Further Maths.

[BobbinThreadbare123]

I did physics at uni but didn't do Further Maths. We were all taught that plus more in Yr1 of degree so it didn't matter much. It does give a leg up I suppose. I did chemistry, geography and a language alongside physics and maths.

[CMOTDibbler]

I also meant to say that I was also undecided between physics and biology based subjects. In the end my degree was physics with medical physics and I've worked in that ever since and love it as it has both of my favourite things

[cantkeepawayforever]

I would say do Further Maths - and this is as someone who ended up with a life sciences based degree, having done Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry.

It was always said - and AFAIK is still true today - that moving into life sciences (especially the Biochemistry / Genetics / Biophysics type end) without Biology is relatively easy, while Physics without a strong Maths base is MUCH more difficult.

[Sadik]

Lots of helpful thoughts. It's a particularly interesting point that there's scope to move towards the life sciences starting from the maths/physics end of the scale.

Obviously at this age I can't really advise, just listen & be supportive. I might point out to dd though that she really likes maths despite having had average to pretty dreadful teaching through most of secondary school, whereas she really enjoys biology I suspect at least partly because she has had an excellent and supportive teacher throughout.

[Decorhate]

Can she do Physics, Biology, Maths & further maths? There are a lot of bioengineering type courses now which might cover both her interests?

[amirrorimage]

I think from the experience of one DC (starting physics at university) that further maths A level may be useful as a pointer of what degree physics is like at the universities you mention.
If she studies chemistry she can certainly still keep options open particularly if applying for natural science degrees.

[catslife]

If your dd is interested in applying for NatSci then would advise taking all 3 Sciences at A level. This would open up the most Science degree courses in the future.
Physics may be her favourite science at the moment, but there are differences between GCSE and A level and I have known students change their mind.
Biochemistry is the biggest growth area in the biological/biomedical sciences which would be much more difficult for degree students without A level Chemistry.

[Sadik]

The one area she's pretty certain she's not interested in is medicine / biomedical sciences. TBH one of the main disincentives for her I think regarding biology / life sciences at degree level is that biomedical careers are one of the main obvious options. (Been put off NHS careers by extended family, & genetics/surrounding areas by knowing too many geneticists who have dropped out of careers because of ethical issues . . .)

[Sadik]

Useful point that FM would be helpful in getting a feel for what physics / theoretical physics courses are likely to entail amirrorimage

[TheSecondOfHerName]

DS2 is thinking about this at the moment.

The Physics courses he looked at require Maths & Physics

He also looked at Natural Science courses which split into Physical Sciences and Biological Sciences. The Biological Sciences pathways require Chemistry (not Biology).

He is applying to do Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Further Maths A-level courses.

[BobbinThreadbare123]

I'd also like to add that it would be really great if more people took physics at degree level and especially more girls! We're in desperate need in this country of physicists and engineers.

[Spam88]

I did physics at uni without further maths (also now working in Medical Physics). The further maths stuff was covered in the first year of the degree, would have been easier if I'd already covered it but it was fine. Don't know about applying to Cambridge though - I applied to oxford but the entrance exam contained maths questions that would only have been covered by that point in the year if you were doing further maths, despite further maths not being a requirement. She could always do some self study of course though.

[MikeUniformMike]

Physics, Chemistry, Maths and Further Maths is the best option.
Biology isn't particularly relevant to Physics.

[catslife]

No problem sadik what your dd isn't interested in is also important.
Do the Welsh Science AS/A2 levels still contain controlled assessments (ISAs)? The disadvantage of taking all 3 Sciences in Y12 is the large amount of time that preparing for these ISAs takes. Whereas for Maths and further maths this won't be an issue.

[Sadik]

Good question about the controlled assessments catslife - I'll suggest she finds out.

[Malbecfan]

DD1 studying Nat Sci (Physical) took Physics, Chemistry, Maths, Further Maths (and English Lit). Chemistry was always her first interest but in her 1st year now she is studying Maths (compulsory), Physics, Chemistry and Materials. There are Maths groups: one for those who got an A* in FM, one for those who didn't, and one covering Maths for Biologists. She is in the middle group and coping well. The Biology course is more geared towards statistics from what she understands.

[Str4ngedaysindeed]

DS is doing Physics, Maths and Chemistry this summer with the aim of doing Physics at Exeter or UCL. - he loves physics and maths but admits he find chemistry harder and in fact wishes he'd done politics instaed as this wouldn't have been a barrier to the offers he's had ( and is his hobby - odd boy!) Some of his friends re doing economics as well so I guess as long as physics and maths are included ( obviously!)the third isn't quite so important. *Disclaimer - I failed maths O level 3 times and am solidly English/drama so it may all as well be a language from another planet to me

[TheFrendo]

In my view further maths is very useful for a degree in physics. A lot of content in the current A level further maths used to be in A level maths 30+ years ago.

Maths A level has had most of the maths removed from it. Back in the day, you used to have to use calculus in A level physics (in e.g natural decay, electromagnetic induction, mechanics and gravitation). This has gone. Also, there used to be long derive questions (derive the pressure of an ideal gas or centripetal acceleration etc), these have been replaced by noddy describe questions.

[HeyBells]

DS has just had an offer from Cambridge for NatSci; A* in both physics and further maths, A in both maths and chemistry. He has applied for physics/theoretical physics at other unis. Not sure if this helps at all, as we have no idea what would have happened if he had not done FM even though school offers it.

[Sadik]

Good point about the reduced content in A level maths - and given that I suspect even if dd only takes FM to AS level, it would still be helpful.

She doesn't want to lose chemistry - that and physics are her two definites! (and regular maths) Knowing her interests I can imagine that actually as A levels progress she could equally be drawn towards the more practical side, chemical engineering, that sort of thing. Which again goes with dropping biology & focusing on the maths-y side of things I guess.

[Sadik]

Malbecfan ex-H (dd's dad) took Maths for Biologists many, many years ago. I gather - at least back then - it was a nice low pressure option if you had done FM A level

[Sadik]

Malbecfan ex-H (dd's dad) took Maths for Biologists many, many years ago. I gather - at least back then - it was a nice low pressure option if you had done FM A level