The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

@nex18 believe me when I say that not all parents will do this. They will argue and even scream at the school office or head teacher when they tell them the child needs to stay off until they have a test.

I'm also pissed off that 3 separate children in my class bounded up to me excitedly this week saying they were going to X's house for a play date. I gently told them we're not allowed to do that at the moment and they looked crushed.

@Glitterynails So what should they do?

@RigaBalsam

Its this graphic that does it for me.How dare they? Its so wrong.

Its the graphic that combines the teacher of unknown with the other teachers. My phone will not let me attach it.

They have manipulated teachers just writing teacher and then creating this category of ' teacher of unknown type'

Just wow!

These two graphics of the data as presented, and the important bit.

It was published uncritically by newspapers - teachers at no higher risk than other professions - when the evidence is that teachers are at higher risk than other keyworkers including frontline NHS, even bearing in mind they only used data up to 16th Oct in a report which used data up to 6th November for every other analysis.

Noble yes that's the one.

Absolutely outrageous.

@Bluewavescrashing

I'm also pissed off that 3 separate children in my class bounded up to me excitedly this week saying they were going to X's house for a play date. I gently told them we're not allowed to do that at the moment and they looked crushed.

Ah yes that's almost a daily occurance in our school.

I'm going to X's house
X came to mine for a sleepover
X's mummy is collecting me today

And so on.

I used to love asking the students what they'd been up to at the weekend. Now I don't bother.

@Bluewavescrashing

My take on this as an infant school teacher and parent of 2 infant/junior DCs-

1.Government are lazy and incompetent, unwilling to spend money to properly mitigate risk in schools and so took the easy option of everyone back to school with a few paltry 'safety measures'.

1. Parents in general would rather believe schools are safe and go along with the charade than question it, because most need to work, they know school will educate their child better than a home schooling scenario in the majority of families, and there is no other way for children to socialise now. I include myself in this.

1. People conveniently forget that teachers could be in the CEV category, or live with them in their household.

1. There seems to be a levelling up of risk, perceived by the public, of supermarket workers, delivery drivers, etc so that teachers are put in the same category as these workers. But in no other job can you currently be in a small room with 30 individuals. Even with windows open, a clear visor on, an attempt at distancing (which is a nonsense) and extra cleaning, if virus aerosols are floating around in the air there is more risk than a transitory contact time paying at a till with a huge perspex screen, for example.

1. My 5 year old class are trying so hard to cope with sitting at desks in rows for most of the day. They are not developmentally ready for this and should be sitting in small groups at tables, moving to the carpet for whole class teaching inputs, etc. This setup, as well as being largely unworkable also puts me, the most vulnerable person in the room, in front of 30 people's used air.?! But it looks like we're doing something to mitigate risk, so it stands.

Super post. I'm not sure there's a conspiracy, I think it's incompetence at the top here. Also, most parents will do anything to avoid testing young children. Agree that the reality of school for young children now is pretty miserable. Parents have no idea.

@nex18

No *@noblegiraffe* I don’t agree, if school asks you to test your child, you go through the questions and tick “I have been asked to get a test” and then book a test.

To repeat the Government list again:

You can only get a free NHS test if at least one of the following applies:

you have a high temperature
you have a new, continuous cough
you’ve lost your sense of smell or taste or it’s changed
you’ve been asked to by a local council
you’re taking part in a government pilot project

There is nothing on there that says schools can request children are tested.

Schools can't even ask to see evidence of a negative test before a kid returns to school.

@Balhammom

I think this thread reflects a fundamental ignorance as to what the UK, and other countries, are seeking to do.

It is not possible to eradicate covid through lockdowns alone. Therefore, the aim of the current measures is to limit its spread to levels that (i) do not lead to rapid exponential growth, and (ii) allow the health service to respond to positive cases requiring treatment... while still maintaining most of the economy and core services, including education.

On that basis, most of the scientists and clinicians I know agree with, or are at least comfortable with, the current measures.

I think teachers aren't ignorant and do realise this to be true. But I cannot understand why it's ok for school staff to be put fully at risk when many many other professions have more measures in place to protect them. Are my colleagues and I worth less than them? If this is the accepted truth then school staff need more protection and families who have a CEV member need to be able to keep the children at home without a problem. I also think it's easy to talk about safety measures in schools and call people complaining about it ignorant when actually you know very little about living with it day to day

I'm sorry but the manipulation of data, and the blatantly false publicity campaign about what schools are doing show it is deliberate.

Personally I think it's deluded to expect the vast majority of parents to not want to send their dc to school & campaign on the behalf of teachers. It's just not realistic, people risk assess based on their circumstances & don't generally think about the impact on others. Look at illegal drug usage.

Then you have the negligent parents but is that a shock? If you have parents that abuse their dc you are going to have parents who send positive kids in.

Noble ,I'm v dense sorry ,talk me through the composition of the graph .

Should the teacher of unknown type be broken down and ,if added to the other teacher categories,would then show that teachers more at risk than other groups ?

Barbie if you don't think there's a conspiracy, then why do you think the government is persistently using outdated or fudged data to tell parents and teachers that schools are safe?

Using that PHE report from lockdown to say schools are safe in September. Using data from lockdown to say that parents are only at 8% increased risk of catching covid. Using manipulated ONS data to say teachers aren't at more risk of catching covid than everyone else.

It's not like they're thick. If we can spot the issues, then so can Chris Whitty.

At DS school they only started to wear masks when lockdown started. Every few days we get emails reminding parents to give their children masks and that there are children who are still refusing to wear one.

Ds said that none of the 'cool' kids wear them in corridors

Schools should never have shut. Healthy children should never be forced to isolate. There is zero evidence that mask wearing by the general public stops the spread of infection and forcing children to wear a mask is damaging to their psychological and social development. Also is likely to be a health risk as wearing a contaminated mask is akin to wearing a used handkerchief over your face.

Healthy children are not at risk from coronavirus and should not be damaged by restrictions. It has always been a risk working with children or being a parent. Those that do not want to take that risk should have considered this before having children or choosing to work with them. The majority of parents and teachers do this and they should fight to ensure that they don't get emotionally blackmailed by a vocal minority.

This is true of our school where I work, but it's private so it seems to be able to do anything (or not do anything) it likes.
We now have several children off, it is described as "COVID related" on the register. No-one seems to know about this, including parents and no bubbles are sent home.

Teachers don't wear masks in the classroom, staff do wear them outside the classroom but many don't bother. There's no social distancing. All the precautions originally put in place, such as distancing in corridors, no shared bathrooms, no communal singing, are now mostly ignored. There is plenty of sanitiser but now equipment is often not sanitised, children forget to wash their hands and aren't chased up.

We now have a couple of teachers off too, other teachers are covering. No-one discusses what is happening. There are 2 full boxes of tests available but no-one has collected/used one yet!

But I cannot understand why it's ok for school staff to be put fully at risk when many many other professions have more measures in place to protect them.

I don't think the general population think teachers are at low risk but I haven't seen any campaigns to make jobs safer as a few occupations have a greater risk. I may have missed them though?

@kremeshe not even on behalf of vulnerable ones? I am a teacher and a parent. I want my children to be in school but not at the expense of vulnerable adults! I don’t see why wanting my children in school and wanting vulnerable staff to be protected needs to be mutually exclusive?!

@Billie18

Schools should never have shut. Healthy children should never be forced to isolate. There is zero evidence that mask wearing by the general public stops the spread of infection and forcing children to wear a mask is damaging to their psychological and social development. Also is likely to be a health risk as wearing a contaminated mask is akin to wearing a used handkerchief over your face.

Healthy children are not at risk from coronavirus and should not be damaged by restrictions. It has always been a risk working with children or being a parent. Those that do not want to take that risk should have considered this before having children or choosing to work with them. The majority of parents and teachers do this and they should fight to ensure that they don't get emotionally blackmailed by a vocal minority.

Lol! What a bunch of bollocks. Why is anyone bothering with masks anywhere then?

Coming into contact with viruses is a part of life, so presumably we shouldn't be bothering with any of this lockdown shit? You're on the wrong thread, off you pop to FB

@kremeshe I recall campaigns and outrage for better protections for NHS staff, carers and bus drivers, off the top of my head.

all our local schools primary and secondry have had full year groups sent home due to a few positive cases . But they have had no massive outbreaks. It's literally been the positive case that causes the shut down and no spread.

@Billie18

Schools should never have shut. Healthy children should never be forced to isolate. There is zero evidence that mask wearing by the general public stops the spread of infection and forcing children to wear a mask is damaging to their psychological and social development. Also is likely to be a health risk as wearing a contaminated mask is akin to wearing a used handkerchief over your face.

Healthy children are not at risk from coronavirus and should not be damaged by restrictions. It has always been a risk working with children or being a parent. Those that do not want to take that risk should have considered this before having children or choosing to work with them. The majority of parents and teachers do this and they should fight to ensure that they don't get emotionally blackmailed by a vocal minority.

You need to look up normalcy bias.

Sorry, but in my county where we currently have a high case rate, we have been recommended to get a test for virtually any symptoms, this message has been reinforced by schools (particularly that children don't show classic symptoms). No requirement to isolate but anyone experiencing headache, fatigue, stomach ache (in children), sneezing, sore throat is recommended to be tested now that capacity has been significant expanded. We also have frequent asymptomatic pop up testing centres around the county.

I don't think that what you are suggesting is true.

@rwalker

all our local schools primary and secondry have had full year groups sent home due to a few positive cases . But they have had no massive outbreaks. It's literally been the positive case that causes the shut down and no spread.

Secondary schools sending home entire year groups is quite unusual. The ones around here are only sending home the close contacts of the positive case.

@peridito

Noble ,I'm v dense sorry ,talk me through the composition of the graph .

Should the teacher of unknown type be broken down and ,if added to the other teacher categories,would then show that teachers more at risk than other groups ?

It looks like the survey asked for occupation. Some teachers put primary teacher. Some put secondary teacher. Some just put teacher. The group that just put teacher was bigger than the ones that said primary and secondary combined.

The numbers were: (from another thread, someone managed to dig it up)
Teachers of unknown Type - 7,714
Primary Teachers - 2,190
Secondary Teachers - 1,852

The ONS graph published the graph with primary teacher and secondary teacher clearly split out. The groups are small so the error bars are large.

The large group, which contained most teachers in the survey, were labelled 'Teachers of an unknown type'. You can tell there are way more teachers in this group because the error bars are much smaller. This group is clearly the group at the highest risk compared to the other groups, but because it has a vague label, it was completely ignored. It was generally assumed that this was a small group.

The ONS used this to make the claim "Data from 2 September (the start of the school year) to 16 October 2020 show no evidence of differences in the positivity rate between primary and secondary school teachers, other key workers and other professions."

Which was dutifully reported in the news.