The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

I’m still furious that Boris had a socially distant meeting with one positive case and ‘had to isolate’ but it doesn’t matter how many cases I’ve been in contact with in exactly the same way min 10 for the record it is not necessary for me to isolate.

Difference is what exactly? One was meeting room other was a classroom. One room had far more people in, hint not the one who has to isolate though.

Primary school teachers are part of the bubble, so that's different. I was talking about secondary in my original list.
And yes some schools were asking for pupils to be tested in the beginning without the big 3 symptoms - and they have basically been told off and told not to do so any more.

Testing isn’t restricted to the 3 main symptoms. You are supposed to be tested if you have one of those symptoms, you can request a test through the NHS website and say you don’t have any of these symptoms and you are still able to book one. Several areas are doing asymptomatic community testing. So you can be tested, you just don’t need to be.

In our area (high rates) staff and students have been told to test with any of a range of symptoms from headaches, cases and pains, stomach upsets, sneezing etc.

Our local authority here in Stoke On Trent has contacted schools with an updated guidance list for testing this was letter from our local school

@SansaSnark

Upset stomach as a symptom is one that really worries me - we have had a lot of kids off with upset stomachs since half term (more than normal, I would say) but no one makes the link between this and Covid-19.

If it were my child, I would say that they had a temperature and get a test, just in case.

We've had similar at our school. I hadn't made the connection that it could be a Covid symptom. 😟

Most of that list is simply not true.

My dc school has had 2 bubbles that were instructed to self isolate including the teacher

This is way, way more likely to be primary where a class of children will be all close contacts with each other.

In secondary we also planned for bubbles. Bubbles share equipment, classrooms, are close to each other in the corridors and at break time. Back in the summer we talked about how mad bubbles of 250 were and now they seem totally irrelevant as only seating plan close contacts are sent home, not the kids that they spend hours in small, poorly ventilated classrooms with.
Sending home close contacts only is NOT stopping the spread. All it is doing is minimising the number of kids sent home for any one positive case. It's not evidenced-based or effective.

My kids had bad tummies during lockdown & I remember then the discussion it may be a symptom. If they had it again I would get them tested.

@nex18

Testing isn’t restricted to the 3 main symptoms. You are supposed to be tested if you have one of those symptoms, you can request a test through the NHS website and say you don’t have any of these symptoms and you are still able to book one. Several areas are doing asymptomatic community testing. So you can be tested, you just don’t need to be.

No asymptomatic testing in most areas then.

And the gov say you can ONLY get a free NHS test with those symptoms or if you have been requested to. Are you saying they're lying?

If this was AIBU then YANBU

As admin in an infant school the lack of tests for symptoms that 4-7 year olds have is bothering me. Parents have cases, The junior school has cases (including siblings) the secondary has cases (including siblings) and has only 1 year group in. Its a small village. We have a peak in 'very tired with a an upset stomach' in our school. 48 hours off for that. I guess in a 14 days or so we will see if it spreads to the rest of us.

I think this thread reflects a fundamental ignorance as to what the UK, and other countries, are seeking to do.

It is not possible to eradicate covid through lockdowns alone. Therefore, the aim of the current measures is to limit its spread to levels that (i) do not lead to rapid exponential growth, and (ii) allow the health service to respond to positive cases requiring treatment... while still maintaining most of the economy and core services, including education.

On that basis, most of the scientists and clinicians I know agree with, or are at least comfortable with, the current measures.

I think this thread reflects a fundamental ignorance as to what the UK, and other countries, are seeking to do.

I think when the government says that schools are safe and that ECV families should continue to send their kids to school they're lying.

If they are seeking to limit spread, then look at the red line of infection rates in secondary school children and tell me if it's working.

@BecomeStronger

Most of that list is simply not true.

Which ones? Happy to clarify.

@balhammom
I acknowledge that. The measures are to slow and limit the spread. What I cannot stomach is that there have been so few safety measures for schools. Vulnerable staff are still working in them without protection. CEV staff were working in them until this new lockdown began (will they be back in early December when it ends?). That is not okay.

The govt’s management of this pandemic is pretty awful. I suspect if there are any outbreaks at schools they will blame the individual schools rather than looking at their own policies.

@BecomeStronger

Most of that list is simply not true.

And yet it is evidenced as true

@noblegiraffe yes that was primary.

DB works in a secondary & they have been pretty proactive according to him. He feels comfortable but it's a big modern site & they have staggered start times, different routes, separate break areas, etc to limit mixing & designated routes. Masks have been allowed since September for pupils & staff who wanted it & must be worn at all times outside classrooms. Windows must be open which he said was a bit cold. Not sure about whether he has to self isolate or not but luckily staff & students seem to be doing well. They had 1 positive case in Oct from memory.

If the intent is to let it spread/schools collateral damage in limiting spread as @Balhammom suggests - then its criminal that those who are vulnerable are in school. Truly criminal. And why play the game of officially pretending its safe?

If its not lets just acknowledge its not, let vulnerable people stay off and crack on.

@noblegiraffe I am not saying they’re lying, I am saying you can still book a test without these symptoms (and if not, you can tick yes you have symptoms nobody checks).

It really really is beyond belief that so many are okay with "limiting covid" and "stopping the spread" by only letting it spread in schools.... without allowing those who might die to not be in.

Yes i understand that, @Balhammom but surely if more measures were taken in schools we could have more shops open and protect jobs too. Deciding not to mitigate risks in schools means have to eliminate risks in pubs by closing them.
And its great scientists are comfortable limiting spread at a population level to stop ovewhelming the nhs by - but teachers arent comfortable with working without similar protective measures to other workers - especially with a vaccine on the horizon. Its not a reasonable stance to say to a teacher please take these totally unecessary risks because the hospitals arent overwhelmed so it doesnt matter if you die.
Noone says 'i wont wear a seatbelt today as i hear ICU is pretty empty'

@SansaSnark

Upset stomach as a symptom is one that really worries me - we have had a lot of kids off with upset stomachs since half term (more than normal, I would say) but no one makes the link between this and Covid-19.

If it were my child, I would say that they had a temperature and get a test, just in case.

When I picked my son up from school o Friday his teacher said he had been feeling sick. He's complained of a bad headache, stomach pains and hasn't ate a thing since. I've been wondering whether to get him tested as I know from MN they are common symptoms. His temp is only 37 though

@Balhammom I think you are probably right, the whole thing is a balance. Not just schools but take the eat out to help out. Yes it caused more cases but it also meant some business survived, boosted some people's morale. It will be the same with the Christmas easing.
I was definitely nervous about sending dc back as of course it can't be 100% safe.