The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

@Tfoot75 are the schools there allowed to ask for proof of testing and results? Because this is banned by the DfE nationwide. It’s great that there is more testing in your county and for more symptoms. This should be nationwide.

I don't think the general population think teachers are at low risk

They've been told they are at no more risk than anyone else in the news using fudged data.

@Tfoot75

Sorry, but in my county where we currently have a high case rate, we have been recommended to get a test for virtually any symptoms, this message has been reinforced by schools (particularly that children don't show classic symptoms). No requirement to isolate but anyone experiencing headache, fatigue, stomach ache (in children), sneezing, sore throat is recommended to be tested now that capacity has been significant expanded. We also have frequent asymptomatic pop up testing centres around the county.

I don't think that what you are suggesting is true.

What, because your area is doing its own thing, what I'm suggesting isn't true?

I've posted the government website list of symptoms that you only qualify for a free test for.

3. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

You are right that nationally this is the advice, but local councils are starting to override this. In Staffordshire the council has issued new advice to test for a variety of symptoms such as headache, fatigue, rash etc (you can see the details of this on the homepage of the council website.) When booking a test you're supposed to select 'no' for the question 'do you have symptoms' and then on the next page select the reason 'my council has asked me to test'. So this suggests that many more councils are doing the same thing and going beyond the national guidelines to try to limit spread. I was relieved to hear this as like you say, children don't typically present with the 3 main symptoms.

@noblegiraffe

By the way, if you only read ONE link from my OP, PLEASE make it this one where the ONS have been reported to the UK Statistics Authority.

twitter.com/sarahdrasmussen/status/1330294388354899969?s=21

It's an absolute scandal. Chris Whitby lied about ONS data claiming it showed teachers weren't at a higher risk than other professions. I know we've discussed on here how the data was fudged to hide that teachers had higher risk of catching covid than frontline NHS workers, but I didn't realise they'd also restricted the time frame of the data to make it look better than it actually is (and it was pretty bad in the data they used).

Wow, this is everything about the statistics I wish I had the coherence to say. I can't see a lot that can be argued with there...

That's a damning list. I hope one day it is used to hold this Govt to account.

I work with schools that are all being hit hard by this. My own secondary school children have had multiple periods of SI. Their schools are on their knees.

@Glitterynails I would argue that the NHS & carers are driven by self interest as people want to feel safe in hospital hence why so many stayed away during lockdown & people want carers to wear masks because of elderly relatives etc.

I don't remember seeing anything about taxi drivers, chefs, retail workers, security guards, construction workers, cleaners etc. Have you started campaigns or participated in for any of them? It's the same thing you are asking of parents in theory.
I believe more than 600 deaths amongst NHS staff have been linked to Covid. I think if teachers had similar statistics then yes the public would be more involved. I'm not saying it's right by the way but it's human nature.

@Balhammom

I think this thread reflects a fundamental ignorance as to what the UK, and other countries, are seeking to do.

It is not possible to eradicate covid through lockdowns alone. Therefore, the aim of the current measures is to limit its spread to levels that (i) do not lead to rapid exponential growth, and (ii) allow the health service to respond to positive cases requiring treatment... while still maintaining most of the economy and core services, including education.

On that basis, most of the scientists and clinicians I know agree with, or are at least comfortable with, the current measures.

Somewhat condescending with your assumptions there.

I believe most school staff are well aware of the purpose of the current restrictions and that it is to ensure that our health system remains functioning safely.

Have you read Noble's points and the links to back them up? The propaganda that pushed the idea that schools would be/are covid secure. The singling out of school staff to be the only workforce given no mandatory protective measures based on the lie that they can stay 2 metres away from others at all times. It may be fine for scientists to be comfortable with this situation but they are so far removed from the risks within schools. What sort of society are we in that so many people feel it is acceptable to continue putting staff and pupils at much higher risks and also their families back home? The long term effects of this virus are still to be learnt and I can't believe we are potentially allowing so many young people to be deliberately exposed nevermind the risks teachers are in.

Just wanted to show this for people in low transmission areas who haven't been impacted that much. Large secondary - tier 3 before lockdown.
Each letter resulted in a year group isolating - no staff though.
Doesn't include the latest 3 positives and year groups out for 2 weeks.

I think if teachers had similar statistics then yes the public would be more involved.

They're not publishing deaths by occupation. But it's odd that teachers are required to die before people realise that being put in classrooms of 30+ with no mitigation measures bar hand sanitiser and maybe an open window is unacceptable. This scenario is illegal everywhere else for a reason.

People were horrified at the lack of PPE in the NHS without asking for death certificates.

@Glitterynails I don't think vulnerable ones should have zero protection or be forced to work. However I don't actually know how many vulnerable teachers work in my school, I don't know how many at my supermarket are vulnerable (except age), or if my delivery driver is vulnerable. Are you keeping your dc off then?

I don't remember seeing anything about taxi drivers, chefs, retail workers, security guards, construction workers, cleaners etc

Did you forget the campaign for bus drivers that was well supported by the public and led to better, more safer guidelines for them and more space created at the front where you can’t sit and passengers only getting on and off at the back doors?
Quite right too but it’s a shame you don’t feel the need for other jobs to have to same support.

[quote PineappleUpsideDownCake]@Donewith2020 that makes me so cross on your behalf. I teach just sessionally (not school) and have refused f2f this term. We're losing money. I'm terrified my child will bring it home and I will die. I've already had friends point put that its the "underlyingncondition" that would kill me. As if that makes it okay!!![/quote]
Ask them to think about if you got run over by a bus, would it also be underlyingcondition that killed you? And if not why not?

@kremeshe I do not see the state compelling those workers to work without any safety measures. If you do then you should report it to the health and safety executive immediately. I do see those sectors/jobs you mention all being limited during lockdown with furlough available to their employers though.

Yes I was outraged that bus drivers were collateral damage at the start of all this. Yes I signed petitions for masks on public transport.

No I cannot understand why people don’t want schools to be safer for children and staff. I want schools to stay open but to pretend that are safe and not to put any safety measures in place is ridiculous.

I believe more than 600 deaths amongst NHS staff have been linked to Covid. I think if teachers had similar statistics then yes the public would be more involved.

No one knows (there isn't up to date info on NHS staff either). A FOI request literally said 'we don't know'.

@noblegiraffe

What have you done or the behalf of other workers eg construction staff or security guards. I'm not trying to be facetious I'm just trying to illustrate my point.

We have had 50k plus deaths in the UK from Covid & yet some people still don't believe it even exists or bother to wear masks, anti lockdown or think the vaccine is mind control. Yet you think it's odd that people aren't up in arms about teachers deaths? Really?

@Billy18, "Healthy children should never be forced to isolate."

Well, perhaps not, except the fundamental flaw in your point is that we don't know if they're healthy or not because they're not being tested!

@kremeshe no I am not keeping my children off. They attend my school and I know that I am the most vulnerable member of staff working there. I’ve had parents of children in my class TOLD that there are vulnerable staff members in the class and they have refused to test or changed the symptoms when told to stay off. Keeping my own children off wouldn’t achieve anything when I am up against that.

As for vulnerable staff in other jobs. My husband runs a business. Some staff need to be furloughed as business is limited and he can reasonably furlough the vulnerable ones in that group. Schools do not have that option.

Yet you think it's odd that people aren't up in arms about teachers deaths? Really?

Eh? This data isn't being published.

It is easy to say 'in my area, kids can get tested for a dicky tummy' and present that as a counter argument.

I raise you with 'in my areas , staff are being told not to get tested if they only have one symptom' and not to SI or get their own DCs tested if they 'only have a cough'.

The only way you get redress from the situation is to leave. Teaching is not going to get better. Journalists can't help you in your job.

@harribot, how is giving up your livelihood redress? I know little about employment law but your suggestion seems to be to accept constructive dismissal.

[quote kremeshe]@noblegiraffe

What have you done or the behalf of other workers eg construction staff or security guards. I'm not trying to be facetious I'm just trying to illustrate my point.

We have had 50k plus deaths in the UK from Covid & yet some people still don't believe it even exists or bother to wear masks, anti lockdown or think the vaccine is mind control. Yet you think it's odd that people aren't up in arms about teachers deaths? Really? [/quote]
All these other occupations now have protective measures in place. There are mandatory employment protections in place. That is what teachers are saying, that they should also be entitled to the same protection.

I think people not working in schools just do not understand the reality of it.
We are a small primary in a rural area of low incidence. Classes of less than 20.

3 cases this week - whole key stage plus 3 members of staff isolating.

If we can't manage to carry on then with the best will in the world larger schools just won't!

We had a massive advantage - and it still happened.
@noblegiraffe
Well done for trying to believe the best in people by thinking that they just don't realise.
Sadly some are plainly aware and just don't care.

@noblegiraffe

I just looked at the ons & nursingnotes.co.uk/news/workforce/number-of-nhs-staff-dying-in-service-double-that-of-previous-years/

Obviously like the covid total death rate they are behind & I'm sure incomplete.

Kremeshe they published one set of data on deaths by occupation going up to 25th May. That's it. It's telling that your link is from September but still references this data.