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AIBU?

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Original poster

LGBT+ at summer camp?

376 replies

TreeSqueak · 02/08/2018 13:17

My dc are at a summer camp this week. It's a day camp run by a youth movement. The leaders are aged from 17/18 to mid-20s, the children 6-11. I can't fault the care, my dc have come home every day burbling with happiness, exhausted, loving the leaders and the activities.

Every day has a different theme. Yesterday it was LGBT+. I noticed the flags and facepaint when I dropped them off.

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc.

AIBU that this is not an appropriate theme for the setting?

OP posts:
DULLDull · 02/08/2018 13:20

Totally inappropriate. That's for the parents to educate their children about and your permission should have been sought.

MrPan · 02/08/2018 13:21

you would have to be more specific about which youth movement it is.

and of course children's quotes about sensitive issues need to be examined more closely.

MrPan · 02/08/2018 13:23

and of course who exactly finances these camps.

Bizzylizzyloo · 02/08/2018 13:28

It used to be illegal to talk about homosexuality in schools and we rightly condemned that as an evil practice which alienated vulnerable people.

You don't get to pick and choose just because this is the limit of your tolerance. If you think it's abominable to sweep the existence of gays and lesbians under the carpet and pretend they don't exist, you can't then argue for different rules for trangender people.

Trans people exist, kids should learn about it, what exactly is the issue?!

NanFlanders · 02/08/2018 13:28

I don't know. I went on an international Woodcraft camp some years ago, and there was an LGBT+ Pride march that the kids could take part in. Kids seemed to enjoy it. This was before the current salience and controversy over trans rights though. Also, I'm guessing that they get this in sex and relationships education at school.

Branleuse · 02/08/2018 13:31

I would be writing a stern letter along the lines of ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/08/2018 13:32

I think it is appropriate, though cynically I also think they were foolish not to warn you this would be a theme, as many people will object.

Remember, there are lots of children who live in LGBT families, so it is partly about normalising that, in just the same way you might do Black History Month (even if many children learning about it are white).

misskatamari · 02/08/2018 13:33

I don't see the issue. Some people are trans and do wish to transition, and we should be encouraging people to be tolerant of that.

Don't get me wrong, I share some of the concerns that are usually mentioned on here about self - ID, and children being encouraged to think of themselves as trans if they don't fit with gender stereotypes (I'm very anti gender stereotypes and feel very strongly that wanting to wear a dress/something masculine as naff all to do with your gender identify or your sexual orientation, and kids especially should be allowed to like what they like without societies stereotypical ideals being foisted upon them). However I feel that is a separate issue and from what you have said, I wouldn't have an issue with kids being taught about what LGBT+ means and being encouraged to be accepting of others.

MrPan · 02/08/2018 13:36

I'd still look at who is financing this. There is a whole swathe of controversity about the T in LGBT, as the rest of the banner refers to sexuality NOT trans.

TacoLover · 02/08/2018 13:38

They do exactly the same in school eventually anyway so no point in kicking up a fuss about it.

Alaaya · 02/08/2018 13:39

I think the repeal of section 28 was absolutely to allow stuff like this - it stated that parents should educate children and no one else.

I guess you could campaign to have it reinstated?

MrPan · 02/08/2018 13:40

Nope. Every reason to question the organisation of it.

Bizzylizzyloo · 02/08/2018 13:42

I doubt anyone is 'financing' this - it's a holiday camp which OP is presumably paying for her children to attend. The leaders are all young people in their teens and early twenties, an age group which is known to be hugely tolerant and inclusive of the trans community. It's not surprising that LGBT is an educational topic they're interested in exploring.

But who knows, maybe the wealthy trans cabal has infiltrated summer holiday camps with their heinous message of understanding that not all people are the same and tolerating differences 🙄

Alaaya · 02/08/2018 13:43

Also, are you really complaining that "we should love and respect everyone" is not an appropriate message for children to hear? Hmm

MrPan · 02/08/2018 13:51

No Bizzy - it's an issue of impressionable young people being influenced by equally impressionable young people.

and yes the aggressive trans-financed sector would zero in on this 'camp'.

Bizzylizzyloo · 02/08/2018 13:55

it's an issue of impressionable young people being influenced by equally impressionable young people

Being influenced to do what, exactly? Tolerate LGBT people? Treat others with love and respect? Understand and appreciate that not all humans are the same? Please tell me what part of the message OP described is not suitable for children?

This is a disgraceful moral panic. LGBT people are not 'inappropriate' for children to know about. Some of those kids might grow up to be LGBT themselves. There is nothing sinister, salacious or vulgar about LGBT people, and so there is no reason why kids shouldn't have these lessons.

Original poster
TreeSqueak · 02/08/2018 13:57

The main problem is that I didn't send my dc to summer camp for sex and relationships education.

I have no problem with the love and respect message. I have no problem with them learning about the diversity in sexuality. I do have a problem with this being done without any reference to the parents. I also have a problem that they are teaching young dc about contentious issues.

At school we are informed before S&R sessions snd are allowed to withdraw our dc. We were not given any information about this at the summer camp. At school the S&R sessions do not mention trans at all.

Ironically this camp is under the auspices of a religious organisation.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 02/08/2018 13:58

Dc told me last night that they had learned about every letter, what each one meant, including that you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to, and we should love and respect everyone, etc etc etc

With children that age parents should have been notified and given the opportunity to give consent (or not). Aside from this, material such as this you may not be the sex that you look like, how people were different and should change if they wanted to is fucking dangerous. You cannot change sex. The lesson should have been about tolerance, not biological inaccuracies.

MrPan · 02/08/2018 13:59

yes you are deliberately avoiding that separation of LGB and T.

Which triggers me to avoiding exchanges with you, and the OP on reflection.

Bombardier25966 · 02/08/2018 14:00

and yes the aggressive trans-financed sector would zero in on this 'camp'.

Evidence of this infiltration of children's camps please. I'd hope you wouldn't make such an extreme statement without it.

Darknessinthevalley · 02/08/2018 14:01

I recently did a lesson like this across KS2 at my school. We didn't seek parental permission because it then flags it as a potential issue and makes people think there may be something to worry about. As a teacher I was protected in doing this under the equalities act and therefore did not need parental permission, and this was explained to the two parents from eight classes who complained to the head.
This sounds like a great camp, really forward thinking. Especially at the higher end of the age group, that experience could've been so validating for those kids.

TheyCanGoInTheBucket · 02/08/2018 14:02

I'd be hopping mad. Absolutely no issue whatsoever with LGB, my young DC have many friends who have 2 mums etc, it's normalised for them.

The T+ bit though, absolutely not. Too young, you impressionable, and more importantly it's something that I as their parent will discuss with them as and when I see fit, in a manner that I believe to be appropriate to their age and understanding.

MrPan · 02/08/2018 14:02

So Bombadier, here is the TRA initiative. Have a seat.

Original poster
TreeSqueak · 02/08/2018 14:03

FFS no-one has zeroed-in on this camp. It's a lovely, cuddly, gentle camp. The only ideology - until yesterday - has been that of the religious organisation that is running it, and even that has been a very very light touch.

OP posts:
Bizzylizzyloo · 02/08/2018 14:03

I suppose it didn't occur to them to think that saying 'LGBT people exist and we should treat them equally' was so contentious that a parent would withdraw their child over it. At least if you complain they'll no next time that you need a disclaimer to teach human decency.

YABU to assume that religious organisations would automatically be less tolerant than non-religious organisations. Many are incredibly welcoming and inclusive of the LGBT community.

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