Does it worry you that six WOMEN are convicted of rape?

(133 Posts)
loveyouradvice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:15:28

Mail today..... about how far more sex crimes are being committed by women....including six rapes.

To commit rape you have to have a penis - that is the definition of rape (intentionally penetrating vagina, anus or mouth with his penis without consent)

So at least six of these crimes committed by women - and probably far more - have been committed by men who identify as women.....

This really worries me

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5465541/Record-number-women-convicted-sex-crimes-Britain.html

OP’s posts: |
AuntFidgetWonkhamStrongNajork Tue 06-Mar-18 16:17:21

I guess you can still rape with a lady penis then. Especially when it's attached to a man.

StitchKitty Tue 06-Mar-18 16:26:59

You don't have to be a man to Rape or commit a sex crime, a quick google search gives the definition: unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.(http://www.dictionary.com/browse/rape)

People of any gender/sex/orientation can commit a sex crime (or any crime for that matter) it does not require a penis.

Fugitivefrombrusstice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:30:47

The legal definition of rape has been changed, it now no longer means penetration by a penis alone. It can also be fingers or an object of any kind. This was a hugely important development as it finally brought the law in line with actual experiences of women who had been raped in ways the law didn't recognise.

People of any gender or sexual orientation can commit rape, and people of any gender or sexual orientation can be the victims of rape. It's so important that the law recognises the real experiences of victims and ensures that they receive both justice and the appropriate level of support. This is obviously something that needs to be urgently addressed, as convictions are still horrifically low and court processes very traumatising to victims.

cinderellawantstogototheball Tue 06-Mar-18 16:31:06

Anyone can commit a sexual offence. But I think rape specifically still has to be with a penis:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/part/1/crossheading/rape

There was a petition a couple of years ago to have it changed, saying that women could penetrate say with a sex toy, but AFAIK nothing changed. I may well be wrong though?

loveyouradvice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:33:27

That's the american definition .... in the UK it is still:

Rape is a statutory offence in England and Wales. According to the law, rape occurs when one person penetrates another with their penis without the consent of the person being penetrated. If a victim is forcefully penetrated with an object, this is classed as "Assault by Penetration" (section 2).

OP’s posts: |
Fugitivefrombrusstice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:34:14

Sorry, I should have said - my comment relates to the law in Scotland. I assumed it was the same in England, saddened that it isn't. The law must be brought up to date, it's a terrible disservice to women otherwise

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cinderellawantstogototheball Tue 06-Mar-18 16:34:25

That being said, I THINK the penalties for assault by penetration could be as severe as for rape.

Fugitivefrombrusstice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:34:47

(It's the sexual offences scotland act if anyone is interested)

maxthemartian Tue 06-Mar-18 16:35:02

The crime of rape requires a penis in UK law. Anything else is Assualt by Penetration which carries the same tariff.
So six men women convicted of rape used their penises.

Fugitivefrombrusstice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:35:45

You all mean English law, not UK law

janetlane Tue 06-Mar-18 16:37:06

I think women need to face the same penalties as men if they commit a sexual offence. So if women touch a man up without consent then same as men. If women penetrate a man with whatever they use then they should have the same penalty as men would if they penetrated a women.

steff13 Tue 06-Mar-18 16:37:49

It looks like the UK rape law does specify penetration with a penis. That was current on legislation.gov.uk as of this morning. So I am not sure how six women were convicted of rape. I didn't see any details in the article.

I do think that definition is kind of narrow, personally. I woman could penetrate a man or another woman with any number of objects, and I think that should be considered rape, but that's just my opinion.

The definition of rape where I live is this:
Rape is any form of unwanted sexual contact obtained without consent and/or obtained through the use of force, threat of force, intimidation, or coercion.
It goes on to define consent, intimidation, coercion, etc., but that's the basic law.

Chowmum Tue 06-Mar-18 16:38:59

Where's the article on how many men were convicted of sex crimes?
(13,700 in 16/17 according to the CPS, of which a third were against children)

Personally, I find that rather more worrying.

TooManyPaws Tue 06-Mar-18 16:39:01

I do wish people wouldn't talk about UK law when they mean English law. It's very arrogant and ignorant, and does people who need advice a complete disservice by perhaps giving them completely the wrong information. Get it right, it's not rocket science.

cinderellawantstogototheball Tue 06-Mar-18 16:39:20

Janet - I think that's covered by the "assault by penetration" section in the statute.

The OP's point was: if in England you need a penis to commit "rape", how can 6 women have committed rape? Answer: 6 biological males have committed rape and are now identifying as women.

Which skews the crime stats for women - and raises the question of where they have been imprisoned, if they have been. Do we really want someone who has raped a woman to be put in prison with some of the most vulnerable women in society?

steff13 Tue 06-Mar-18 16:41:19

I do wish people wouldn't talk about UK law when they mean English law. It's very arrogant and ignorant, and does people who need advice a complete disservice by perhaps giving them completely the wrong information. Get it right, it's not rocket science.

The website I reviewed was legislation.gov.uk. It doesn't specify that there are different laws in different parts of the UK.

cinderellawantstogototheball Tue 06-Mar-18 16:41:33

Fine but the population of England is 53,000,000 and therefore substantially higher than the rest of the UK. Therefore most of these offences are likely to be committed in England. Surely the real point to focus on here is about men/women committing crimes, not the title of the law? (You can always start another thread asking AIBU to say that England thinks it's always about them - doubtless lots of posters will agree smile)

loveyouradvice Tue 06-Mar-18 16:41:39

The interesting thing is that a lot of people want the rape definition to stand as it is ... as it will be the only way of measuring some crimes committed by transwomen (or at least those. men identifying as women but still having a penis) ...

A real concern as men who transition still have the same (or higher) level of violence towards women - and there is no way of measuring this apart from rape once they are recorded (as they already are) as women

OP’s posts: |
McT123 Tue 06-Mar-18 16:43:05

Can anyone provide a link to any of these 6 rapes to see if they were definitely carried out by men who identify as women? The article doesn't say whether the figures are for England, the UK or anywhere so entirely possible that this thread is trans-bashing with nothing to back it up.

Mrsmadevans Tue 06-Mar-18 16:43:35

Is this women who pretend they are men and have 'intercourse' with their partners using a false penis to fool them into thinking they are men. There have been a few cases lately.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4644044/Ex-private-schoolgirl-tricked-female-friend-sex.html

KingLooieCatz Tue 06-Mar-18 16:44:14

I think, and I'm going along way back, that there was a case where a woman was convicted of rape as part of a group and this was in England. All I can remember is something to do with a canal and I think the offender's first name was Clare. This would have been around 2000.

So I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

There is a thing where you can be convicted of a crime where you were part of a group, can't remember the proper name for it.

TooManyPaws Tue 06-Mar-18 16:44:24

"This is the first statutory definition of rape in Scots law; prior to this Act, the offense was defined at common law. ... penetrates to any extent, either intending to do so or reckless as to whether there is penetration, the vagina, anus or mouth of B then A commits an offence, to be known as the offence of rape." Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009.

So rape CAN be committed on a man or woman by a woman IN THE UK, just not the whole of the UK. However, by far the most sexual offences of any sort are committed by men in any country.

ChampiontheWonderHamster Tue 06-Mar-18 16:45:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TooManyPaws Tue 06-Mar-18 16:50:03

The website I reviewed was legislation.gov.uk. It doesn't specify that there are different laws in different parts of the UK.

Not, but it's common knowledge that there are three legal systems in the UK, which is why Westminster has to pass laws for England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland separately with regard to reserved matters. Devolved administrations also pass laws on matters pertaining to devolved matters. This is absolutely standard political and current affairs knowledge by anyone interested and educated, including self-educated in these matters. Too many people are content to speak from a position of ignorance.

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