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I am Spartacus

(310 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

disfasia Tue 21-Mar-17 22:15:38

I am posting this here since "Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself. Women are socialised to concede to men, to institutional pressures, and to ask "Am I being unreasonable?" I am posting here because I know I am not. And this is my protest to MNHQ for censoring women's language, for telling us that the only way to refer to a man who lays claim to be a woman is to call him "she", to call him a "woman." But he is not a woman.

In the past ten days, three different transwomen have been sentenced to prison or arrested for rape or murder of women. Just today a rapist of two children was transferred to a female prison. These are men who commit these crimes and the whitewashing of history and the pressuring of women by MNHQ to say "she", deleting comments when we respectfully disagree and point out scientific evidence, as clear in science as the earth's rotation around the sun. And I am sick of it.

I am sick of the harassment of women who say, "No" to male violence. And make no mistake MNHQ, what you are doing to women on this matter is pure unadulterated violence. You worry more about the feelings of males than women who have, statistically speaking, been victimised by male violence.

If you expect women to come to this website and generate movement for you, you need to understand that in a week where Ian Huntley wants to become a woman, where Jessica Winfield (AKA Martin Ponting) another rapist is housed with women, where Texas is facing a lawsuit from three different prisoners who have been subjected to rape at the hands of another trans prisoner, and the recent sentencing of Kayleigh Woods for the murder of Bethany Hill, her really need to understand that women know the difference between a man and a woman. No, we don't need men telling us to address them as a woman. Nor should MNHQ bei so inclined. This is an open-debate and trans "identity" is up for debate because it is a feeling, not a reality. You cannot oblige women to see the world in a delusory way simply because that individual is delusional or confirmed in his "belief."

MN needs to be a space where women are free to interact honestly, where biology is not written off as unimportant. Rape is very much connected to the biology of males. MNHQ needs to allow for women to set their own boundaries in their own language. We should not be coerced or pressured in any way to goose step with delusional ideologies where the body is irrelevant. This is Mumsnet which exists precisely because the body IS relevant.

This is a revolution.

sonyaya Tue 21-Mar-17 22:18:23

What is MNHQ "doing to women on the matter"? Genuine question

dailyshite Tue 21-Mar-17 22:19:31

You lost me at '"Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself'

WhiskyIrnBru Tue 21-Mar-17 22:21:04

biscuit

OnionKnight Tue 21-Mar-17 22:21:56

"Am I being unreasonable?" is only a phrase that a female would ask herself.

What utter, flaming bollocks.

WombOfOnesOwn Tue 21-Mar-17 22:22:18

MNHQ doesn't let women determine their own definition of woman. Instead, we are told there is a prescriptivist, empty definition of "a woman is anyone who calls themselves a woman," turning woman into a meaningless phrase.

Posts are deleted for making the issue clear. Anything that doesn't tiptoe around and try to give the benefit of the doubt to non-men-identifying people with penises is deleted. The idea that a woman could decide many of these people are fetishists is apparently appalling and terrible, with even research links deleted.

Even in this post, I am having to double check my language to make sure that I am using MN-friendly terminology instead of doing anything that would refer to people with penises as being unambiguously male.

It's a form of gaslighting and it's cult-like social pressure. You can't just make language changes by demanding that "woman" is suddenly defined differently and expect everyone to be on board.

VestalVirgin Tue 21-Mar-17 22:25:36

I am Spartacus, too.

It's a form of gaslighting and it's cult-like social pressure. You can't just make language changes by demanding that "woman" is suddenly defined differently and expect everyone to be on board

Exactly.

DontFeedTheTrolls Tue 21-Mar-17 22:25:52

biscuit

BeyondUser24601 Tue 21-Mar-17 22:26:41

What did I miss?

I do agree with the suggestion that men generally don't have the same self doubt that would lead to "am I being unreasonable" questioning, btw. They are socialised to believe they are right.

Heratnumber7 Tue 21-Mar-17 22:29:35

I am also Spartacus.

Well said OP

PippaPepperpot Tue 21-Mar-17 22:35:44

I, too, am Spartacus. You can never make me call a person with a penis anything other than a man. I am a woman. I am Spartacus.

WombOfOnesOwn Tue 21-Mar-17 22:42:45

There is a board online I am part of where women can let down their hair and use all the male pronouns they want for male people.

When they come there, they are often overwhelmed initially, even crying with relief. They had all thought they were going mad. The world around them seemed to suddenly not make sense, and reality itself seemed like it was malleable to the whims of specific people.

Finding a place where they can simply speak their minds -- no filter, no tiptoeing, no making sure no one is offended -- has helped many of the women in the group to blossom and grow. It is hard to grow when you feel the world is becoming crazy around you, or perhaps that you have gone crazy in it.

This is why I say it is gaslighting: the women who emerge from parts of the internet where their speech on this issue is curtailed feel exactly like women who experience gaslighting in their relationships. The dizzy realization that you might not have been going crazy, that other people share the same objective reality as you, feels like coming out of a fog that was destroying your mind.

SisterMoonshine Tue 21-Mar-17 22:42:47

I concur.
And I have gone completely off the idea if using preferred pronouns. It only encourages the delusion. I use 'they' even if it sounds clunky, because I don't want to be violent.

ExitPursuedByUser54321 Tue 21-Mar-17 22:45:46

If like to comment but unfortunately I am not allowed to.

IllBeBackmaybe Tue 21-Mar-17 22:54:19

It's a form of gaslighting and it's cult-like social pressure. You can't just make language changes by demanding that "woman" is suddenly defined differently and expect everyone to be on board.

Yes so much to this. And to this.

This is an open-debate and trans "identity" is up for debate because it is a feeling, not a reality. You cannot oblige women to see the world in a delusory way simply because that individual is delusional or confirmed in his "belief."

BeyondUser24601 Tue 21-Mar-17 22:56:12

Not allowed to, exit?? confused

BeyondUser24601 Tue 21-Mar-17 22:56:47

<name change inspired by exit, btw>

VestalVirgin Tue 21-Mar-17 23:00:47

There is a board online I am part of where women can let down their hair and use all the male pronouns they want for male people.

Sounds wonderful.

This is why I say it is gaslighting: the women who emerge from parts of the internet where their speech on this issue is curtailed feel exactly like women who experience gaslighting in their relationships. The dizzy realization that you might not have been going crazy, that other people share the same objective reality as you, feels like coming out of a fog that was destroying your mind.

It is horrible that this gendernonsense gained enough traction to make some people actually doubt their own perceptions.

I mean, it is so fucking obvious, it is like we are asked to pretend that the sky is yellow and the moon is made of green cheese.

ErrolTheDragon Tue 21-Mar-17 23:00:51

'Woman' is still defined as an adult female human being. 'Female' is still defined as of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs. Therefore, 'woman' means, an adult of the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs.

As a rationalist and pedant, I'd logically have to be Spartacus even if I wasn't also a feminist.

ExitPursuedByUser54321 Tue 21-Mar-17 23:01:58

I've been warned.

QueenArseClangers Tue 21-Mar-17 23:04:12

I totally agree OP.

I am Spartacus.

PageNowFoundFileUnderSpartacus Tue 21-Mar-17 23:06:10

Well said OP.

As my username suggests, I too am Spartacus.

QueenArseClangers Tue 21-Mar-17 23:07:52

And my DH is totally in agreement.
I'm all for being polite and kindness run through my morals like ore but I'm not being thrown under the bus of male privilege any longer.

BeyondUser24601 Tue 21-Mar-17 23:08:14

Oh dear shock hopefully mnhq won't have a problem with you just checking in and agreeing, I can't see how that would be a problem...?

I can't get past the parallel with religion. Imagine if all posts that stated disbelief in a god were deleted, because 'someone' has decided that existance of god is now actual fact and not a belief system. It would be bonkers.

DickToPhone Tue 21-Mar-17 23:08:23

It's interesting that, say, Pistonheads, which probably has the same (but reverse) gender balance as Mumsnet doesn't feel the same compunction to not to offend anyone. www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=1658529

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