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Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

(553 Posts)
GabbyLoggon Mon 28-Feb-11 11:53:59

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

corns12k Mon 28-Feb-11 11:55:09

how are they going to train them? Are they graduates - will they do a PGCE?

GabbyLoggon Mon 28-Feb-11 11:55:45

I should have mentioned it is NOT going to be a sgt major screaming and bawling job. (More teaching with kindness.) hmmmmm disappointed? "Gabby"

GabbyLoggon Mon 28-Feb-11 11:57:11

they will do a 2 year course, Corns, I dont know about previous qualifications.

GretchenWiener Mon 28-Feb-11 11:59:35

they can apply like the rest of them
the thing is that schools have changed a LOT since everyone was AT school
teaching and learning is very different. Planning lessons is HARD and not just "open the book". There is a lot to take into account - classroom discipline can be controlled as much with a whisper as a shout and a charismatic teacher can control effortlessly.

corns12k Mon 28-Feb-11 12:02:02

Is there a shortage of teachers?

Themumsnot Mon 28-Feb-11 12:03:50

I've just been accepted onto a PGCE training course. It has taken me four years to get a degree and the requisite work experience, I slogged my guts out, jumped through all the hoops, prepared so hard for my interview - and it paid off. It really is hard to be accepted for teacher training now.
I am not sure what particular qualities ex-Forces personnel have that make them exceptional enough not to have to go through the same application process as everyone else. Most mature entrants to the profession (myself included) have significant experience in other sectors and many transferable skills, the forces are not unique in this respect.
Personally, I think it is a cynical ploy to appear to be doing something to address the supposed "lack of discipline" in schools without actually spending any extra money. As all new entrants to the profession are made aware, at the moment with the exception of one or two subjects teaching is a very overcrowded profession. There is no need, except a public relations need, to have an ex-Para in every classroom.

corns12k Mon 28-Feb-11 12:10:27

Yes I agree with mumsnot.

GabbyLoggon Mon 28-Feb-11 12:14:34

Themumsnot...Points taken and well made. The plans need to be looked at seriously; and may add up to very little in the end. Is there a genuine shortage of teachers? "Gabby"

mmsmum Mon 28-Feb-11 12:14:52

Lots of people in the forces have degrees in a variety of different areas so I hope no-one is going to go on about a lack of education. The forces are about so much more than front line fighters.

I think I'd like the idea of drill sergeants in schools, might do some good! But I suspect they are normal people and the gov. is just thinking of careers for them when they leave the service.

I also suspect that this is nothing new but simply a new spin being put on something because someone in Downing St. has decided it will look good to dress it up a bit

corns12k Mon 28-Feb-11 12:16:09

if they have a degree who not do a PGCE then?

meditrina Mon 28-Feb-11 12:16:17

It's (initially at least) only open to those who already have a degree, and I'm pretty sure it's a normal PGCE. Like all (I hope) who embark on a PGCE, only those who are up to it will reach the classroom.

Gabby was right about Labour-inspired initiatives: it's an idea that's been around since 2008.

corns12k Mon 28-Feb-11 12:16:20

why not

SnapFrakkleAndPop Mon 28-Feb-11 12:17:11

I think it rather depends what they'd be teaching...

corns12k Mon 28-Feb-11 12:17:11

well if it's just a PGCE then that's a non-story

Teachermumof3 Mon 28-Feb-11 12:24:55

If it's just people with an army background doing a PGCE, then that's no different to anyone else doing one! If they will get priority over other people to get on the course then that is unfair.

I would be extremely cautious going into teaching at the moment regardless of your background. There are very few jobs out there, redundancies looming, cover supervisors/HLTAs taking classes/jobs and the ridiculous 16 month supply/QTS rule.

I bet the program won't mention any of that though!

Sidge Mon 28-Feb-11 12:25:10

My husband is in the military and already teaches cadets, officers and ratings. I see no reason why, if he left and wanted to teach schoolchildren, he couldn't do a PGCE like any other candidate and go into teaching.

Surely it's the characteristics, education and experiences of a person that make them a good teacher, not that they've been in the military? My DH certainly wouldn't be able to teach schoolchildren in the same way he teaches adults in the Forces. He'd need to adapt like any other person doing a PGCE that hasn't taught school aged children before.

All a bit of a non-story methinks.

Vallhala Mon 28-Feb-11 12:29:18

I agree with mumsnot. I'd also be rather concerned about the emphasis on military careers and on the political bent of ex-forces teachers.

Fine if they are nly going to gain entry into teaching just as anyone else would, not fine if they have special treatment or push the "glory" of war or of a military career at my children.

weegiemum Mon 28-Feb-11 12:30:32

If you are in the army, are leaving the army, have a degree and are prepared to do a PGCE, then apply like anyone else.

If you don't have a degree, well, apply for the 4 year primary BEd or go get a degree and then apply for the PGCE.

WHy on earth would coming out of the military make you more qualified to be a teacher than any other profession?

LIke "I can defuse an IED so year 10 are no bother to me?"

We need to value our children in education more than this.

GabbyLoggon Mon 28-Feb-11 12:32:35

Vallhalla Points well made and taken

Sidge It is the Tory-led Coalition publicity machine which is turning it into a big story for their own ends. "Gabby"

MCos Mon 28-Feb-11 12:35:25

Might get more men into teaching? Isn't there a lack of male teachers?
I presume they will need to train up same as anybody else?

LeQueen Mon 28-Feb-11 12:37:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lovenamechange100 Mon 28-Feb-11 12:47:05


There is a massive gap in the standards of discipline in the forces and in schools, I think these individuals who may have all the correct skills and knowledge to teach would struggle at first to accept the culture shock at first.

weegiemum Mon 28-Feb-11 12:50:49

I dont think its just standards though, I think its methods too. You can't treat a class of y7 like you would a bunch of new recruits. Its a different situation, and I think we need to be careful to keep them seperate. Not all children (or parents) want their children to be treated as mini-recruits. Personally if an ex-soldier tried "being in the military is the way to go" propaganda on my kids (which has been mentioned on this thread ) I'd be up at the school all guns blazing <aware of irony>

lovenamechange100 Mon 28-Feb-11 12:59:39

Ooh yes I would too wee and I wouldnt want to work with them either, kids in schools are very quick to compare teachers and mr/mrs such and such said or does within departments and across departments.

Year 7's are still just so young when they get to Secondary a lot of them epecially in the first term wold be scared shitless.

A higher percentage of children in deprived areas (I have worked in two) are from single parent homes where the primary carer is their mum and do not relate well to males espcially those in authority, more so if they have witnessed DV from a male towards there mother. So I do not think this approach would work with such groups of children. They need smaller groups and often away from traitional classroom environment.

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