What do the Labour party need to do to stop their slow death?

(633 Posts)
flashbac Sun 25-Apr-21 10:34:45

I'll start:

Starmer needs to stop acting like a rabbit in the headlights and actually stand for something. He has no charisma or gravitas. We want someone with a personality. Stand for something Starmer!

Stop pandering to the 'red wall'. Inspire people to vote for the party with some good policies instead of flip flopping about.

Have some inspiring and uplifting policies like:
- Free childcare for working parents
- making public transport normal and affordable
- subsidised green energy initiatives to help householders lower energy bills eg solar panels etc

And they NEED to distance themselves from that anti science TWAW stance. I'm all for being kind but a blanket dilution of what 'woman' means is regressive.

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flashbac Sun 25-Apr-21 11:23:24

I should have posted this in AIBU it seems!

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EmpressWitchDoesntBurn Sun 25-Apr-21 11:26:02

I simply can’t vote Labour at the moment because of Lisa Nandy’s statement that anyone who doesn’t think rapists should be in women’s prisons is unwelcome in their party. Then there’s their treatment of Rosie Duffield.

If Labour would commit to backing women’s sex-based rights, I might rethink.

CatrinVennastin Sun 25-Apr-21 11:29:05

I have been a Labour supporter all my life and live in a safe Labour seat. I am really happy with my MP but have no idea what Labour stand for now.

I would like to see more support for very small micro businesses rather than money being thrown at the likes of Dyson who then fucks off overseas.

Something like a grant of £500 for sole traders which could be used for equipment upgrades or hiring a staff member.

Bythemillpond Sun 25-Apr-21 11:56:08

I think the problem with Labour is their war on anyone who wants to better themselves by starting a business or getting a better job that takes their salary over into “rich” section of society who need to be punished for earning more.
I think Blair’s Labour did well in 1997 because it took account of people who might have been at the lower end of the income scale but wanted to work theirselves up.
I get the impression that if you are a small business person under a Labour government now that you are the enemy and need to be brought down a few pegs so you are reliant on the state.
How dare you want to become part of the rich elite.

Maybe someone can put it better than I have
but the amount of people they appeal to with this impression is getting smaller and smaller.
People don’t want to be thought of as incapable. Yes they might need help to get going but not the sort of help that keeps them stuck.

A lot of their politics is about bringing down the rich not helping those at the lower end to climb up.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow Sun 25-Apr-21 11:58:53

They need to focus on being less London centric, and levelling up the north. That could sort out the Red Wall.

I wish Andy Burnham was leader tbh. Starmer is just insignificant with no passion.

caringcarer Sun 25-Apr-21 11:59:28

Labour are too woke and pretty useless. They are supposed to be the official opposition but Starmer agreed with everything Boris says or does and orders his party to vote for it or abstain, never to vote against it. Free childcare if both parents work over 30 hours each or at least heavily discounted would be a great policy and my children are all grown up but I recognise paying more for childcare than a mortgage is madness. What are Labours policies? I don't even know anymore.

Bythemillpond Sun 25-Apr-21 12:00:52

Also I think Keir Starmer does have one of those faces that is instantly forgettable. I am sure I have seen him on tv news programmes but I just can’t picture him in my head.
I think he was the best candidate they had at the time but he lacks presence. I couldn’t tell you what he stands or doesn’t stand for.

Burn0ut Sun 25-Apr-21 12:06:22

The Labour party is very strongly members-led. It is possible to change it from within. I have done it for a bit, holding office, being active in the CLP, being active at national leadership level, being the change we wish to be. Sadly I am too fragile for politics (at the moment I am too fragile for anything...), but I think if there were more of us (i.e. more women, campaigning for women's right and democracy within the party) it would not have been such a struggle.

Giggorata Sun 25-Apr-21 12:07:03

They need to understand what a woman is.

Burn0ut Sun 25-Apr-21 12:07:52

PS @flashbac I agree with every single point you make.

Sexnotgender Sun 25-Apr-21 12:07:55

They need to ditch momentum.
They need to actually engage with and listen to women.

flashbac Sun 25-Apr-21 12:07:58

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

I simply can’t vote Labour at the moment because of Lisa Nandy’s statement that anyone who doesn’t think rapists should be in women’s prisons is unwelcome in their party. Then there’s their treatment of Rosie Duffield.

If Labour would commit to backing women’s sex-based rights, I might rethink.

Agreed. It's like they don't have an inner sense of what's right. They just pander to who shouts the loudest be it TRAs or the red tops. No backbone.

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PastMyBestBeforeDate Sun 25-Apr-21 12:15:36

Labour did put up some good policies last time such as making the broadband fit for purpose and free but people voted for the Conservatives. People seem to like Boris Johnson. People didn't like Jeremy Corbyn. A lot of people don't vote on policy.
I've voted Labour all my adult life. I was a party member who went out and knocked on doors. I'm a woman though so I won't do any of that now.

AgeLikeWine Sun 25-Apr-21 12:16:24

Next week, in Hartlepool, Labour are going to lose yet another ‘Red Wall’ seat to the Tories, and they are going to lose it badly. They will continue losing until they actually start listening to the people who live in such places.

The Labour Party emerged from the trade union movement to represent the economic interests of working people in Parliament. Now, it represents the cultural & ideological attitudes of an unrepresentative ‘woke’ middle-class metropolitan sect.

If Labour wants to win again it must start listening to the ordinary working people outside the M25 who it is supposed to represent. Lecturing and patronising white working class voters who feel ignored and abandoned about Trans rights or Palestine or the benefits of globalisation is not the route to success. Nor is sneering at their patriotism and desire for law & order, or telling them that the feral criminals who disrupt their communities are ‘marginalised victims’, or telling them that their concerns about unlimited immigration are racist.

MrsPeacockInTheLibrary Sun 25-Apr-21 12:25:51

Their task is almost impossible:

* Win back Scotland - historically they have always needed seats in Scotland to secure a Labour government. Their polling in Scotland is abysmal at the moment.

* They have to win seats convincingly from Tory MPs, as well as reclaim the so-called 'Red Wall.'

* Brexit: The Labour party cannot win on this one - it's fundamentally divided in terms of what different Labour voters wanted. Which leads to my next main point:

* Endemic factionalism, division and infighting within the party: Labour can't be a functional party when it is divided against itself. Those on the left who wanted Corbyn or whatever closer to socialism version. They see those on the right wing of the party as Blairite, not true to Labour principles. Then the right wing or whatever you want to call them see the need for a centrist party away from some of those other values. And round and round it goes. Labour cannot be all things to its voters, whilst also paradoxically then having to convert Tory votes.

* Division on the left in general - the Tories enjoy not only a very comfortable majority, but their side of the spectrum is monopolised by them. On the left you have lib dem, greens, labour, etc or other national/regional represention in Wales and Scotland. Even if all those parties form a coalition and work together the Tories still have a majority. And, as I said, the main problem is and remains the division and infighting, and Labour having difficulty in choosing what politcies can engage such disparate groups of voters.

minsmum Sun 25-Apr-21 12:36:24

I was a Labour party voter for over 50 years but will not vote for them again until they can define what a woman is and make a commitment to sex based rights. However they would also need to ditch the authoritarian attitude and start listening to what people want instead of lecturing about what they think we should want. I also would like Starmer to grow a backbone and support Rosie Duffield, if he can't stop the bullying of one of his own MPs then he is neither use nor ornament

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn Sun 25-Apr-21 12:39:36

Labour did put up some good policies last time such as making the broadband fit for purpose and free but people voted for the Conservatives.

I tried. I really tried. I’m in a Labour stronghold so I knew they’d get in anyway, but I emailed my MP to tell her I’d vote for her if she’d just tell me she’d fight to protect single sex spaces.

Tumbleweed.

Lifeaintalwaysempty Sun 25-Apr-21 12:53:49

Member here and yes Labour need to know what a woman is. If they can be brave, defend women and attempt to stop this race to the bottom in terms of womens rights, they will demonstrate themselves to have common sense, and integrity on a matter that cuts through politics.
And they need to make a much better case for why it’s in all our interests that we have more collectivist rather than individualist perspective, that ways in which we all benefit when we invest in children, in healthcare, in welfare, in housing, in social care... I hoped Keir could make that case but he just doesn’t seem to have any balls.
And get much harder on the huge businesses paying no tax. They all make far too much money in this country to carry out any of their threats of pulling services, and I think most people whatever party they support, think Amazon Google etc etc should pay much more tax on their obscene earnings.

LemonSwan Sun 25-Apr-21 12:58:11

I think the above posters have all summed it up.

Its not rocket science.

Ditching momentum would achieve a number of things:
A. Until they unite themselves not a chance to unite the country. Needs to be one party not a collection of infighting microparties.
B. Currently its like looking at someone with a split personality - they need to clean up the message so everyone is communicating the same thing.
C. Stopping the identity politics rubbish. Currently its like watching a bunch of kids sitting in Bali high on Ayahuasca try to distinguish the meaning of life and connect with their inner souls to open a safe space to allow others to find themselves and heal society through thought power.
D. Become less authoritarian to capture the swing. The majority of the country are libertarian leaning. Cancel culture, mob mentality and trying to fire people are not libertarian. A lot of people veer on the side of caution that if you cant discuss something the short answer is no.
E. Have a bit of common sense. 99% of the country are working people just trying to get on and deal with day to day issues. They all know what a woman is.

noblegiraffe Sun 25-Apr-21 13:01:13

They need some decent policies. Their education policies are shit, for example. I’m not sure if they actually asked any teachers about them, rather pandering to a progressive base, potentially without children currently in schools. The Lib Dems seemed to do far better in that respect.

Lifeaintalwaysempty Sun 25-Apr-21 13:07:28

Also I do agree that if they want to better represent the ‘traditional’ voter base they need to demonstrate better understanding that those voters may be economically left wing but they are socially small c conservative, and yes their beliefs on immigration, security, patriotism etc will influence their vote.
So they need to find a way to reflect that, and/or get it so right on other important issues, that people feel like they can live with a compromise on these things.

PickAChew Sun 25-Apr-21 13:11:23

Split. It's (at least) 2 different parties, moving further and further apart.

PickAChew Sun 25-Apr-21 13:14:04

Giggorata

They need to understand what a woman is.

Unfortunately, this applies to all but right wing parties.

EsmaCannonball Sun 25-Apr-21 13:53:58

Next time there's a big election they need to kidnap Owen Jones, Ash Sarkar and their like and lock them in a cupboard till it's all over. They need to distance themselves from loud, ubiquitous commentators who are voting-booth poison.

They need to reconnect with real people's real concerns. Nobody on a crime-ridden sink estate wants to abolish prisons and the police. Nobody whose job is at risk cares about pronouns.

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