Getting over the fact that contemporaries who didn't take time out with kids are so much further on in careers?

[Bleenherbe]

Just that really. Having attack of the "I coulda been a contender" glooms. Keep telling self:
wanted to spend time with children;
glittering prizes not that glittering;
World full of people with real problems.
Grateful for any ideas of how to give self a shake or just anecdotes from people struggling with similar thoughts!

Yes, not very serious about more children. Quite old for that game. I find ti tricky having skills which are very useful in a job which only really lends itself to being done full-time. I am trying to convert them into other skills...

Bleenherbe - that is exactly why I am very dubious about the mantra so often trotted out on MN that we should bring up our daughters to have exactly the same high career aspirations as our sons.

All very well, but being a high-flying surgeon/barrister/investment banker/lawyer/finance director is really, really hard to convert into a family-friendly job 10 years down the line.

Wouldn't it be better to train as a Clinical Psychologist or a Speech Therapist or something else that requires skill and intelligence but can be done in private practice on an hourly basis?

But not all women go on to have families so not everyone will want a family-friendly job.

I would hate to limit my DDs aspirations, but also know that there is the need to be realistic further down the line if she were to have a family. Gender politics in relation to jobs is a minefield though - equality of pay and opportunity, obs for the boys, the glass ceiling etc.

It would be helpful if society could break free of the standardised 9-5 (or longer) trap. With the recession, a lot more people are learning to work shorter or more flexible hours - both men and women - which can give the option of more family friendly jobs for both sexes.

Ha, I am one of those things you list, Bonsoir. I don't know - it seems to me that maybe one parent in each family should have a "convertible" job but query how you would make people pair up conveniently in that way, especially when so many folks meet at work...

Bleenherbe - now this is getting very interesting...

I am quite aware that if you want to maximise your DD's chances in the marriage market, she needs to be a barrister/investment banker/hospital consultant etc, so that (a) she actually meets men with that kind of job (b) she has the right intellectual dowry for modern men who have all been brought up to think that women should have similar careers to them.

But if you want your DD's marriage and family to succeed, she needs domestic and relationship skills that she will not necessarily have acquired while devoting herself to climbing the greasy pole of the Bar/the City/medicine etc.

And if she wants to feel fulfilled throughout life, she needs some kind of by the hour skilled career...

'jobs for the boys'

lol, I teach speech therapy and clin psych students .

I agree with not limiting our daughters' horizons, at university I had several friends who were choosing courses and careers on the basis of length of training and possibly starting a family. and 20 years on those women are childless (by choice, as far as I know) and working hard. so they might as well have gone with their original aspirations.

don't think you can't go back to it if you want to

I had some time off having dd and ds and have gone back to the same profession and have done as well as I would have done had I not taken the break (by my reckoning )

it's been hard work, very hard work and you have to be determined to show you can do it, but it's possible if you want it to happen

I agree with that, Fennel. who knows when you are young, whether you are male or female, whether you will want kids at all / wnat to be the primary carer. I'm not sure I'd encourage any of my children to do my job which can (not always) wreck anyone's home life. DD wants to be a skunk at the moment; I expect she could do that freelance if she wanted...

I think that is true of what I do, foxinsocks, but if I tried to do it full-time again, I would struggle to see much of my children.

yes but you're saying you don't want to not that you can't (iyswim) which are 2 different things

I'm not saying you should but at least you seem to have a choice which is a nice position to be in

Am finding this thread quite interesting (apart from last few about what jobs your DDs should go for - seems to have gone off track a bit). I am in early 40s and always worked part time since having DCs (8 & 5) having left it quite late to have them but not much of a career. ONly really done one thing for more than a few years which was marketing however left that a few years ago as my company wanted me to increase to 4 days a week and wanted more time with kids as starting school etc. Now work in a school library doing much less hours and much less money but obviously great for school hols and picking up kids etc however don't like job - not really into working with kids and bored to death as not enough adult contact. So now trying to find something else but worried that the longer I am in this job the more i will be seen as 'school librarian'. applied for marketing job recently and didn't get I/V because my marketing experienc wasn't that recent - which is what I am afraid of. Sorry didn't mean to 'take over' thread but sometimes wonder what would have happened if i had stayed in my marketing job and worked something out. Feel a bit useless now as any relevant skills/experience seems to be a few years ago. Frustrating isn't it! I do however still want to do a job that fits in with the kids and school. It's a tough one especially in the current economic crisis.

I'm not sure that the choice between having a FT full-on career (but not seeing much of your children) or not working at all but wanting to is really such a great choice.

interesting that the assumption seems to be that in our daughters generation it will also be the mother who takes the hit career-wise, not the father.

I am slightly depressed that this is the case in my own generation. i was hoping that it might be different by the time my dds grow up and that, as Bleenherbe suggested, there might be couples where one parent - not necessarily automatically the mother - will have a more family-friendly type of job or where it is more socially accepted for the father to be the one who shifts to part-time work if temperament, personal preferences and spheres of work permit.

NorkilyChallenged - I think that women will always take more of a "career hit" than men when children appear... it isn't as cultural as all that...

of course it is Bonsoir. There are plenty of women all over the world who have no choice but to work in low paid jobs and work all hours to make ends meet. Having the choice to stay at home and not have to earn money is a luxury imo.

(and vice versa, not having the option of working because you are looking after a disabled adult/child must make things v tough)

Realised that I don't work in any of the jobs listed by Bonsoir, so possibly never had a high-flying career anyway

foxinsocks - if it were cultural, why would France have (a) the highest birthrate in the developed world (b) the highest proportion of working mothers in the world (c) but still such an earning/responsibility discrepancy between women and men...

It is different, fox, and I do genuinely realise that thsi is in some ways a "luxury" problem. although when i did work full-time I think I was so miserable about the kids that I wasn't exactly progressing my career. But there is definitely an element of this which is about temperament and also wanting to try other things (which is also a luxurious sort of "choice" insofar as it is a choice).
Hello, purpleprincess, I can see why you feel stuck and I sympathise. I don't really know either of your fields but maybe someone will happen along who has some practical ideas...

I didn't say what you were implying there bonsoir. I was saying in this case that there was a degree of not wanting to return to work full stop (not that I think this is a problem ) but there was a degree of choosing this option rather than being forced into the position.

and in trying other things Bleenherbe, you may find something which you are far better suited to and end up doing far better at!

I certainly don't see it as just women who should or will be doing the caring.

My dp has also taken a career hit, he works part time, in a lower level for less pay than pre-children. Unlike me he doesn't stress and moan about it. Just enjoys life in the moment. but that's him, I'm not so good at that.

I hope so, fox, I've always wanted to do lots of things! And it is good for me to see the fact that I have choices, even if they are also major challenges, as a great luxury. I see thsi dilettantism [sic] now in my children "I want to be a cartoonist and a lego inventor and a martial arts professional and a spy..."

Thanks Bleenherbe - I do appreciate (although not all the time ) that a lot of people would love a job like mine that fits in so well with school etc and that fact that financially we are surviving (just about) as it doesn't pay very well. Part of me wishes I could be satisfied with that but you can't make yourself feel something you are not. It is such a shame that there are so many women out there who feel wasted and that is not to denigrate women who choose to stay at home full time at all. I realise my children need me after school so want to be there for them.... but want to do something more.