Invited to a "hearing" regarding my conduct

[Ronaldinhio]

I have been given a number of bullet points that I am supposed to defend? but no idea of context or examples etc
Am I entitled to be supplied with this information and also the witness statements to these facts?
No idea even who my accuser/accusers are??

Help anyone if you can please!

I agree with everything Ribena said.

Also have a read of the Acas Code of Practice for disciplinary situations to give you precise information about what your employer should be doing in these circumstances. If you need to appeal a warning or dismissal, specific examples of how they have not followed this code will be helpful.

Reading your posts again it does sound as though there are an awful lot of things you could legitimately raise with them in terms of the way they are handling this, the information you've been given or not given, and lots of other things. I agree with Ribena you need to write to them now registering your concerns clearly about your ability to answer the allegations, and, should you receive a warning or be dismissed, it sounds as though there may well be lots of points you could make as to why the warning or dismissal was unfair/disproportionate.

hey, did anyone see my post about the right to be accompanied? The law has changed slightly

Bessie- Yes, I was just refreshing my memory of the case.

It was all obiter anyway, because they found a contractual right to have a lawyer, but I don't think that case translates to this situation. It was specifically about public sector employees (where loss of a job = no other employer) and what was, in effect, a criminal charge. You could argue it translated to, say, a lawyer who would lose the right to practice, but I don't see it as a blanket right to bring a lawyer to investigations.

Also, that was the hearing itself, which could be another distinction.

Sounds a horribley unfair situation Ron - hopefully things will stack more in your favour with the good advice you are getting here.

I wondered if you can't take a friend or solicitor into the meeting and don't have a colleague or union rep available, are you allowed to tape record proceedings ? If so that might be something to consider doing so you have a record of what was said.

Some of the things they are detailing I have actually said
I've been saying them for years generally as have my md to me and it has never been raised as a problem and certainly wasn't meant to bully or intimidate
Do I say that?

I'm just very very shocked by it and almost at a standstill

before I received the details of the investigation I told them I was appalled at the idea of being accused of bullying in any fashion and asked if it was something that I could be trained in or helped with my style of delivery etc if there was a case established and they said they didn't think that would be appropriate

feel this is such a lost case

Wine-

It's worth trying, but I always, always refuse requests to tape proceedings. It becomes a nightmare. Everyone debates whether X was said in a funny tone and what that muffled word was. Also, people 'act' to the tape. Totally distracts from the actual proceedings IME.

they are also stating that i went to lunches where alcohol was consumed...this is true as I also did this with HR at one point
I don't work with machinery and this has never in all my working experience been made a point of interest in our industry
what should I say....just that

they can't do you for this if there is no company policy or H&S reason against it.

especially as it is industry standard, as you say.

i also agree with Mrs Jammi that a solicitors comsulation is worthwhile even just to clarify your status and what you should be asking for.

i think it is good you asked for additional traning - refusing it looks 'non-progressive' on their part.

you've all been so brilliant thanks

my dh has seen me in such a state that he has said that he's rather they sacked me so that I can get on with doing something more worthwhile that engaging in any further crappola with this bunch

i had a panic attack and fainted....thought it was a heart attack and have found it difficult to face anyone i know even my friends
doctor says that I shouldn't attend the investigation as too stressful but I think that if I can I should be there

Ronaldinhio, I know nothing about law, employment or otherwise, but I wanted to add my support for you.

I suffered constructive dismissal years ago - my face didn't fit any more, and I was in the throes of a major ms attack (undiagnosed) and was not performing at my best, and likely to cost them a lot of money as I was on a high salary and they would have had to move me into a lower position but maintain my salary etc. They were desperate to get rid of me, and I was subjected to a sustained bullying campaign. I capitulated as I was far too ill to do anything else. I have always regretted it.

Go down fighting. Don't make it easy for them.

Ron, I appreciate that your husband is only thinking of your immediate best interests by effectively encouraging you to walk away with nothing - but in the long run I suspect that you would regret it.

You have a career record that you sound justifiably proud of.

Print off ribena's responses (& others), get all the advice/support you can IRL, take a deep breath and fight your corner.

Great advice I often see on these threads it to approach the situation with your desired outcome(s) in mind. Eg I doubt you want to continue working for such an unprofessional organisation but you want to walk away with £X settlement + no blemish on your name (be that a good reference or a well documented refutal by you of the allegations).

Good luck

Ronaldinhio I have to go out but I have been through something similar and survived it.

I will come back later though.

oh you poor thing. How horrible that this is having such an effect on your health

Two things.

1. See a solicitor now! Madness not too.

1. Have a think about what you want out of this. Do you want to keep your job / be paid off / get a reference / clear your name? What would be a (realistic) ideal outcome for you? I'm asking as it may help to have this clear in your head while arguing with them.

I have a friend who went through a horrible situation. Our employer made her redundant be 'reorgnising' the office - but basically she was sacked (despite being very able and hard working) because of a personality clash with her line manager. She couldn't afford legal advice and it turns out that had she got legal advice she might well have had a good case to do the employer for bullying (but hindsight is a wonderful thing!) As it is, she did the right thing to fight them. She still lost her job, but was gained a small amount of redundancy pay and the promise of a good reference, so she at least had a little money to tide her over and was able to find new employment.

made appt to see solicitor!!!

you are a wonderful bunch...I've simply been unable to cope with anything for the last month but now seem to be getting some motion again

Glad you are seeing a solicitor.

I know someone who got a years wages because he had been treated so badly (constructive dismissal), they settled before ever going to court. Your employers will shit themselves now.

Is there somewhere else you could start work immediately?

if so, it may be worth thinking along the lines of a compromise agreement, which means that both sides would come to an arrangement financially and references.

Do you want to keep working there? It can sometimes be really difficult if you aren't getting support from senior staff, but if it's just a blip on the radar, then try and get through it.

Sometimes disciplinary actions can get blown up so out of proportion, especially if you aren't physically there, so it may be worth talking it through and not making any decisions until you have more information.

IME, the best way to approach a disciplinary, is from the attitude of, 'yes, I am glad to have the opportunity to set the record straight...'

Re doctor.

I think you're probably right that you won't feel any better whilst this is hanging over you. I see lots of people in this situation who get signed off and, the thing is, until there's an outcome either way, the stress doesn't go away and the person doesn't get better.

So I think you're right to try and go if you want.

However, think hard about whether your doctor can suggest some things which would make your life easier at the meeting. For example, your doctor might be willing to write something like "I have advised R that it would be possible for her to be signed off as a result of this illness. She would like to attend the meeting in an effort to resolve the issues, but I recommend that she be permitted to bring a friend or colleague to accompany her and provide support given her mental state."

The employer doesn't have to follow what the doctor says, but they look damn mean at a tribunal if it was sooo reasonable and sensible and they didn't!

Alternatively, a short postponement of, say, a week, would give you time to see the lawyer and get your head together. He could sign you off for a short time?

Just wanted to say that I had read. So sorry you are going through this. I remember my mum having the same problem-management, face didn't fit anymore, and was hounded out basically. She left voluntarily in the end, after 25 years without even a day sick, and found another position, but she always regretted it. Good luck with the hearing anyway; the solicitor is definately the right way to go. BTW, while the solicitor is usually not able to accompany you it IS possible to tape the meeting, and this can be much more helpful in conveying tone than notes. Make sure all present are aware it's being taped though.
Good luck.

The investigator should be only seeking the facts and remain objective, so it is surprising that he/she has made comments beyond this at this point.

If this hearing is in fact an investigatory interview, you can ask to be accompanied.

I'd suggest you stay calm, and prepare the facts of your side of the storiy/stories. Facts are your best defence.

Be ready to provide context, and facts.

If you think someone has a grudge against you, be ready to say why, but again stick to facts as far as you possibly can.

Try to co-operate with the process as that will give you best chance of showing your side of matters.

Ask for the draft written report of the interview as you should be asked to sign it to confirm it accurately refelcts what you said.

Try to stay calm - if you feel upset or nagry, you can and should ask for a break to compose yourself.

Be ready to answer the Q 'Is there anything else you'd like to add? If you are not asked this, say that there are things you'd like to add that you have not had the chance to say and get these points across.

Be ready to consider others points of view too - is it possible you have caused offence for example, without meaning to do so? Sometimes it is is helpful to put yourself in the other's shoes and see the situation from another angle before you reach a conclusion in your own mind.

If things have gone wrong in a working relationship, the manager considering the investigation report will prob behave more sympathetically towards you if you acknowledge you may have contributed to the problem (if you have) and sometimes people cause upset w/o intending to. It can be useful to acknowledge this type of thing and accept you need to modify behaviour.

On the other hand if it is a group who have ganged up against you, you will need to be able to demonstrate that this is what is happening. The investigator should ask who you would like to be interviewed so you could propose other staff who know your work well and would speak up for you and your work. You could also propose staff who have witnessed what has been happening.
Hope this helps.

This is a horrible situation for you.

Lots of useful advice here though.

Bil went through this and his household insurance covered the cost of his solicitor so might be worth checking yours.

Make sure the solicitor specialises in employment law, obviously!

Good luck.