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Original poster

HELP NEEDED. Haven't been paid (no one has)

25 replies

idranktheteaatwork · 31/07/2009 11:08

Hi,

payday is today and is supposed to be by BACS.
No payment has been received into my account, I have received an email from HR stating that there are issues with the BACS system and that we will receive a "fast track" payment into our account by 12pm today.

My boss has called me to say that actually, they had the BACS facility withdrawn as they had abused it. (paid wages last month knowing there were not enough funds in their account).

It is patently clear that the company is going under. wE HAVE NO STOCK and are unable to sell anything aS A consequence.

Is there anything i can do? I have a company car (which belongs to them), two laptops and two phones. Can i reasonably hold onto them until i receive my wages?

OP posts:
somewhathorrified · 31/07/2009 11:19

Phone up Citizens Advice Bureau, they're really good at stuff like that.

LIZS · 31/07/2009 11:22

If they go into Administarion the Administrators can demand assets back and you would join the line of creditors to be paid. CAB is a good place to start or a union if you have one.

edam · 31/07/2009 11:26

Shit! Agree union/CAB. Personally I'd hang onto the car, computers and phones until you know what is happening... but go with what CAB says.

ChazsBarmyArmy · 31/07/2009 12:47

Firstly, don't panic and as the others have said get some advice. Its not quite as bleak as you think. You claim from your employer if they go into insolvency but you should be able to claim in parallel from the national insurance fund. That will cover some wages arrears and you can claim the rest from your employer.

This link should help
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_10026695

Good luck

Original poster
idranktheteaatwork · 31/07/2009 13:39

edam - my thoughts exactly. SHIT!!

Have found out a little more now, basically I have no job. Am still being told that i will be paid today by fast track payment direct into bank but the accounts director has just told me that he doubts there would be enough funds to cover that.
Apparently they may only pay some people today if any.
Have also been told that there will definitely not be any money to cover salaries next month so in effect I have no job.

The lady from HR has told me to hand my notice in as she says this would mean they have to pay me next month but I can't see that somehow. (have a months notice in my contract but they clearly have no funds.)

My pants are flapping.....

CAB are next to useless, told me i need to speak to an employment laywer. I would love to but i have £1.22 in my bank account and no prospect of cash in the short term.....

DP's job is ok but his wage will only just cover essential bills. I am/was the main income.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 31/07/2009 13:43

Does your home insurance include legal expenses cover?

My DH had to see an employment lawyer recently and he told us that it was often covered on home insurance, fortunately when we checked our home insurance DID include legal cover.

Original poster
idranktheteaatwork · 31/07/2009 13:49

Um, that's a fantastic point actually,I don't know, I will check.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 31/07/2009 13:52

We were unaware of this until the lawyer told us about it. Will keep my fingers crossed for you, we are in a similar, although not quite as bad, situation.

pasturesnew · 31/07/2009 13:54

This might be helpful www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_10026695, I hope you would still get a certain amount of redundancy pay through an insolvency payment claim.

pasturesnew · 31/07/2009 13:55

Sorry somehow missed that ChazsBarmyArmy has already posted the same link.

Northernlurker · 31/07/2009 13:56

If the directors know they are insolvent it is illegal for them to pay you today. I don't think an employment lawyer is needed either tbh. It's very simple - the company is bust, you are owed salary, holiday pay and notice pay and as such you are one of the creditors. Thre is a strict order of preference - can't remember what exactly but you will eventually get so many penny to the pound that you are owed. You can't keep the car etc in settlement because the assets of the company - which they are - must be divided as the law requires amongst all the creditors. The government will pay some of your salary through the scheme mentioned below but only to a certain level - ie they pay a set amount and if you earn more than that then it's just tough unfortunately.

This happened to us - dh's employer imploded. Eventually I think we got about 48 pence in the pound owed back. I know how scary it is but don't waste time hoping for your salary because it isn't going to come. As soon as they go out of business you can go and start your claim for jobseekers allowance - and then any other benefit claims you are entitled to. Spend the rest of today updating your CV and phone any contacts you have. Good luck

Winetimeisfinetime · 31/07/2009 13:57

My dh has quite a bit of HR experience { he's not an expert but is involved in lots of employment issues } he says do not hand your notice in - it will affect your entitlement to benefits and won't help your situation in getting paid next month, would also negate any redundancy entitlements.

Winetimeisfinetime · 31/07/2009 14:06

He also says you can't legally hold on to company assets. They may well make it a police matter but he says that if you still have them and an administrator is eventually called in, it will be quite hard for them to keep track of smaller assets of the company and that often lots of things get 'lost' in the melee. So if it was me then I would keep things for as long as I could.

As Northernlurker states you will be made a creditor of the company and the administrator will give the employees information about how to claim for unpaid salaries.

Original poster
idranktheteaatwork · 31/07/2009 14:32

OK. Buggery fuck.

So it looks like there is no chance of getting any money then.....

Even if the adminstrator comes in they owe so much that i doubt there is any chance of paying anyone. No money at all. And i suspect it would be weeks before we got anything.

Fuck. Fucking fucksticks.

OP posts:
Northernlurker · 31/07/2009 14:44

It will be weeks but if it's as buggered as all that then the administrator can find money in all sorts of places - selling all the hardware etc, selling the software licences for pcs etc, tax and VAT rebates 9unlikely though as companies in trouble usually haven't paid this!), rent rebate etc. You will get something but nothing like what you are owed. It's best to know that and plan accordingly.

Have you got any savings - can family lend you anything? What about lining up another job - how hard is that likely to be?

alypaly · 31/07/2009 14:45

idranktheteaatwork
do you work in a pharmacy by any chance

pasturesnew · 31/07/2009 14:48

have a look at the insolvency claim info though, I think this means that the government pays out "redundancy" to a certain extent when the employer is bankrupt.

JoesMummy09 · 31/07/2009 14:59

Agree definitely do not resign. If you do you lose all your redundancy benefits.

I don't know what the HR woman at your company was thinking telling you that (perhaps those few quid saved on your salary would save the company??) but I wouldn't trust anyone who works there. Situations like this don't happen overnight and people there must have known what was happening.

You can get free advice from ACAS. They are independent.

Hope you have family legal protection on your home insurance as that is great in situations like this. I would also check to see if you have any unemployment cover - often arranged with your mortgage or by your union - to take the pressure off in the sort term.

And I would start job hunting now. If they've got problems they're unlikely to be sorted out quickly and you're prob best off out of there.

Good luck

Pruneurs · 31/07/2009 15:36

DO you have it in writing that hte HR person recommended resignation? In an email, perhaps? If you do, keep it, it could come in useful later.
It seems really disingenuous to say the least, unless she is just incompetent.

Original poster
idranktheteaatwork · 31/07/2009 16:07

ALYPALY - nope. Construction related.

I have started job-hunting already so hopefully won't be too long. In the short term i will just do bar work/factory work or whatever through temp agencies to bring in some cash.

I do have unemployment cover but it only kicks in after 6 months service, I've only been there since May after being made redundant from my previous role.

I don't have anything in writing from the HR lady, other than lots of emails telling me she is really worried that we are all out of a job......

All my savings are gone. My dad has offered to give me some money but i'd rather not. He is retired and although he is well off it doesn't sit comfortably with me.

Am so angry now.

OP posts:
Original poster
idranktheteaatwork · 31/07/2009 16:07

Sorry, many thanks ladies and gents for all your help and advice. Much appreciated.

OP posts:
Northernlurker · 31/07/2009 16:53

We were very angry too. It is a horrible position to be in. Best thing is just to keep on going, get over the shock and anger as quickly as you can and concentrate on taking care of you and yours.

surreylady · 31/07/2009 17:40

This happened to me a few years back - and I too had a company car - it turned out that that car insurance was one of the many bills that he was not paying - and we were driving uninsured. You may want to try and check. Unfortunately Pension contributions was another! unfortunately he did not get disqualified at the time but was a couple of years later - not that it helped those of us he did this too. I got out just before it officially went under - although like you it was clear to all that is should not have been trading - I asked for a chq for my salary which they were happy to do as they thought it would bounce anyway - I got my bank to clear the same day and resigned by fax as soon as I got the call to say it was in - a number of us did similar - probably wont work but as an earlier poster said - the Inland Revenue and Bank will take anything left once it officially ceases trading. I hope you get something as this is so unfair and that a better job comes along for you very soon (like today!)

JoesMummy09 · 31/07/2009 17:55

Re the unemployment cover did you have a break between your previous job and this one?

If no break or a very short period you can prob still claim (used to supervise the selling of those sort of policies but has been a while and each company is different)

Call them any way - nothing to lose.

Fingers crossed for you

mumtolawyer · 01/08/2009 22:45

The strict order of priority is: costs of the insolvency procedure; fixed charge holders but only from the assets charged to them (eg someone with the benefit of a mortgage); certain limited arrears of wages (max £800) and holiday pay accrued not taken (not limited); then other charged assets, then ordinary creditors including the balance of wage/employment related arrears, tax, etc.

If you try to keep assets of the company which do not belong to you it is theft and you can be charged. In addition (as if that weren't enough) you are preventing others getting their fair share. Winetimeisfinetime - in general administrators look very hard at what employees are due and what assets they may have. It is relatively easy to check that.

DO NOT resign. You may be entitled to a certain amount of redundancy from the government though that depends on length of service and statutory entitlements. You may not have been there long enough.

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