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Original poster

seriously, how do mums afford to work??

167 replies

omaoma · 16/07/2009 01:23

am currently on ML and wondering about getting back to work. looking at what the cheapest childcare might cost me in London, once i factor in travel, i think i will be left with approximately £4 a day. i am not exaggerating. what on earth is the point? am i missing something??? £4 for all the hassle of rushing to drop off/pick up in time, deal with sick days, deal with work stress, and miss my gorgeous daughter for 10 hours a day. how do you all manage?

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 10/08/2009 14:41

I know where you are coming from Annie but there's a simple answer to your query. Downgrade your house. You say you have a hideous mortgage because you choose to live in Surrey but your husband doesn't work in London so move somewhere cheaper!

We had to do this at one stage. You probably don't realise that you do have options!

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 14:44

You're in the same sodding boat, you even went without heat, WHY IS THAT RIGHT OR ACCEPTABLE!?! Sorry for shouting but really, why oh why is it OK for women's careers and finances to take such a beating when they have children? And for the most part it's the exorbitant cost of childcare that's doing the damage.

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 14:51

So I should give up my friends, DDs school etc so I can have a bigger house? I'm not that shallow, thanks, fox.

Sorry, really annoyed.

I know I have options, I could stack shelves at Sainbury's, I could move to a shitty area etc etc.

BUT WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO!?

Why should I be forced to choose between having children and having a career (and actually earning even a little while doing so)?

That's my point. Can't get why no-one understands what I'm trying to say. I'm not usually this useless at making myself understood....

K999 · 10/08/2009 14:52

I disagree. Its not exorbitant....some child carers get minimum wage!!

EyeballsintheSky · 10/08/2009 14:57

Where did Annie say she chose to live in Surrey? I live in Surrey; I was born here, all my family is here. If choosing means deciding not to up sticks and move away from everything I've ever known then I chose to live here as well. It's not my fault that house prices are extortionate, child care fees through the roof. I stayed where I was born; it's everything else that changed.

You mention you live in Surrey and suddenly everyone has a view on your lifestyle. Never mind the fact that you pay four times as much for a tiny house. But you live in Surrey so you must be loaded, right?

OK, got that rant over with, as you were...

stealthsquiggle · 10/08/2009 14:58

foxinsocks - Believe it. The doctor in question was a junior registrar when she had her first DC. Working shifts means you have to have a full time nursery place even if you are working part time hours as they cannot (generally) flex hours (and she couldn't find a CM). Working antisocial hours means that you have to pay a premium for out of hours childcare. You have to go where the jobs/training posts are so you don't have a lot of choice about where you live - so with one DC she was just about OK. When she got to two she essentially threw up her hands, accepted that she would be working "for the sake of her career" for the next few years, and employed a nanny. Her salary - costs of working - nanny's salary =

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 14:59

OK, I give up. If even the mighty women of MN think all they deserve in life is to have to give up their careers for their children, or to keep working for peanuts, then that's all we'll ever get.

I'm gobsmacked by how you all think it's "just life".

But then maybe it's because I've lived abroad and when I tell my friends there what childcare costs here they fall off their chairs. So I know how much better life for working mums can be, and is, in other countries.

stealthsquiggle · 10/08/2009 15:02

The cost of childcare is high, inspite of the low wages of those involved, because of the requirements around staffing ratios, admin, EYFS, etc, etc, etc.

Now all these things aim to raise the general standards and protect against abuse, both of which are good things. So I accept that the cost of childcare, whilst high, is not exorbitant.

But given that society in general accepts that these are good things, I see no particular reason why society in general should not help support (by tax breaks of one variety or another - note this is paying less tax, not getting free childcare or not paying childcare workers, FFS) skilled working mothers returning to work.

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 15:04

What Stealth said.... as usual some lovely eloquent person is on hand to express what I'm dismally failing to get across!

sprogger · 10/08/2009 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

K999 · 10/08/2009 15:07

I have a career and children - its not impossible,

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 15:12

Ah, but sprogger, there are loads of StuckAHMs too, I bet!

And the earth mother types will be far too busy actually engaging with their darling offspring and teaching them to hand-weave lentils to be faffing about on here.

So, if the working mums aren't here, and the terminally maternal aren't here, that just leaves the middle of the road types, who I would think identify as much as individual women as they do as mothers.

Portofino · 10/08/2009 15:12

Hmmm. Methinks if you have dcs you pay for them yourself. I used to think tax credits were stupid but realise if you simply raised the tax threshold, the money wouldn't be targeted on the families that needed it. (That is probably a whole other discussion).

If you can't afford to manage the lifestyle you want with dcs then don't have them. It is not for others to pay for them.

(Benefits of course need to be there for the people that need them, as circumanstances obviously can change.)

Portofino · 10/08/2009 15:16

But I have to say that Annie is completely right that abroad childcare is not as expensive and comprehensive holiday /sick cover is laid on at low cost. In Belgium, my dd started Kindergarten at 2.5. Cost - zilch (apart from school dinners, and after school club - cost about 80 euros per month). I do on the other hand, hand over more than half my income in tax and social security payment. THAT came as a nasty shock.

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 15:17

Portofino - I agree with you. But childcare in the UK is overpriced, which doesn't exactly make for a level playing field. Most people would only be able to afford one DC without some level of help, and I don't think that's reasonable.

foxinsocks · 10/08/2009 15:23

err Eyeballs, Annie was the one mentioning she had a large mortgage living in Surrey, i just picked up on it, that's all. It's got nothing to do with what I think about people living in Surrey. I would have made the same comment if she had mentioned Newcastle or Isle of Wight ffs so knock that chip off your shoulder!

I get the complaint that childcare is v expensive in this country. I've often complained about it myself.

But I'm sorry, you have choices available to you to make your disposable income greater and you are choosing not to take them!

Many many many people don't have those choices at all!

actually stealth, can see what you mean re the hours needed to be a doctor as childcare is hard/a lot more expensive if you don't work regular hours!

Nobody thinks it's just life. Loads of working parents complain about the cost of working. But we don't all give up. We find out ways to make it work and we carry on. And it's as much as burden for working fathers as it is for working mothers!

AxisofEvil · 10/08/2009 15:26

Why is it people are viewing childcare as a cost of the woman? Any children of mine and DH are our joint reponsibility and so is the cost of their childcare.

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 15:42

Fox - I'm not asking that my dispoable income be greater. I would just like not to have to actually pay to go to work in the career I trained for.

Folks on here are making out that I'm asking for something completely unreasonable!

Flibbertyjibbet · 10/08/2009 15:44

exactly, axis.
DP and I both go out to work (not on great incomes) and the childcare comes out of the joint pot.
We don't look on it as an expense of the mother to allow the mother to work, its a family expense because a joint decision was taken for me to go back to work and that to enable BOTH of us to work, we would need childcare.

True, the first 2 years of 2 in childcare with a 16m gap and the two close together maternity leaves left us with nothing left over at all. But this year we are a bit better off as we both earned more, ds1 starts school in sept and we will finally see some financial benefit from the cost of childcare. I don't look on the cost of childcare compared to just MY income. I look on it as a necessary investment to enable me to have continuity of decent employment which will benefit us so much more in the long run than one of us staying at home.

because if I had taken myself out of the jobs market for 4 or 5 years till ds2 starts school next year, I would have lost touch with the job, lost chances of promotion, and probably scratch around this time next year looking for some part time school hours job.

As it is I have been getting better established in what I do, and am in a position to say that next year instead of 3 days 9-5 I would like to work 5 days 9-3 and thats been accepted.

Someone once said that you are never working for nothing, even if sometimes for a while you are working to stand still before you can start moving on again.

(oh yes it was my sister a single parent with 3 children)

Portofino · 10/08/2009 15:47

I suppose Annie's point is that she would have LESS money if she worked (in her chosen field) than if she didn't.....

EyeballsintheSky · 10/08/2009 15:48

So if she had said she lived in Newcastle and the childcare was extortionate (which it may well be), would you still have implied it was because of where she lived?

And yes, I have got a chip on my shoulder about it, because so many people make judgements about your income because of where you live, assuming you can't possibly be struggling if you live within the M25. Well people do so don't ffs me.

foxinsocks · 10/08/2009 15:48

I do understand that

but you need to add your dh into the equation here now.....can he drop off on certain days or pick up? Can he come home early one day/work one day from home so you don't need as much childcare for that day?

Both of you need to look at the childcare together to figure out ways you could make it cheaper. Sounds like you are not only looking at the cost on your own but also having to do all the arrangements and if both of you are working, you probably need to see if you can spread that burden between you.

AnnieLobeseder · 10/08/2009 15:49

Still gobsmacked at how you all just accept it is how things should be....

A lone voice crying in the wilderness, that's me!

foxinsocks · 10/08/2009 15:53

lol eyeballs, that chip must be the size of a potato! I couldn't give a monkeys where anyone lived! Annie was the one that mentioned her extortionate mortgage and expensive childcare not me.

stealthsquiggle · 10/08/2009 15:53

Annie - it's not (in my case at least) acceptance, just worn-down defeat. I am very interested in any suggestions you may have as to how to change the world (but possibly not up for the French model as I think the UK is bankrupting itself more than fast enough as it is )