Is anyone else an academic who has not produced enough research while having kids and is now in the s***?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There are lots of academics on MN, just wondering if there is anyone else in my position.

Am pg with 3rd dc in 5 years. Have had hyperemesis and other problems in all 3 pgs, which on top of 2 maternity leaves means heaps of time off work. In the meantime I have completely lost research momentum and produced sod all apart from a few book reviews. I was not submitted for RAE (though fortunately my dept did very well without me so none of my colleagues are holding it against me personally.)
Every time I come back it takes me all my time to get back up to speed with teaching and admin, get on top of all the changes in my field etc, and I only ever seem to make baby steps towards producing anything before I am sick or pregnant again.
Just had uncomfortable meeting with (supportive) HoD at which she broke news to me that I am about to get a scary letter from Personnel and a process is going to start which will probably include ritual disembowelling/change to a teaching only contract if I don't get something submitted before baby is due. Which would be fine as long as the foetus behaves and sickness holds off - am only just back at work after 2 months off with HG.

Serves me right for having children, doesn't it?

Exactly flossie. I think what you describe is a common practice and it is horribly exploitative. Junior members of staff on probation end up the same way. As do part-timers.

Yes - a colleague of mine was on a S/T P/T contract so he had the worst of both worlds. He got a reputation for being 'difficult' and 'frequently absent' (another colleague's words), just because he tried to be strict about sticking to the .5 he was getting paid for, which incidentally he never managed to do! That's why it makes me cross when I hear senior academics talking about how they protect their research time by essentially shelving responsibilities - someone has to do the admin and take care of/teach the students (who as paying customers now expect a certain level of service, in our dept at least) and quite often it's those of us who need the time to get onto the very bottom rung of the ladder, let alone move up it. As I posted earlier I have felt as if I'm not achieving, but I've been working 12 hour days just to keep up with all the teaching prep, marking and admin, then when I get home the housework starts. When I think about it, I think I, and all of us, need to give ourselves a bit of a break, a pat on the back even!

Egede, dude: kudos to you for your 3 books - I'm sure they're fab-o-rooney. But to come on this thread, where we're all (albeit in a witty and self-deprecating way ) admitting to not being as productive as we would like, and feeling a bit shitty about it, and to willy wave your research fantasticness in front of us is a touch insensitive, no?

Also, without meaning to miss your point, surely your contract specified that you should do your fair share of admin and face-to-face student time? If not, then you must have been in a stronger position research-wise, etc., from the beginning than any of us, or me, at least. Not sure how you get away with not answering students' emails: don't they flag this up? What about the SSS? Maybe your dept. doesn't care about this.

People not doing their fair share of admin. is rather unkind on everyone else. I'm with Lupus on this one. If more people shared out more equally what there is to be done, there'd be less for everyone to do.

Still, I get where you're coming from, and am impressed that you can do it. I

I didn't mean to 'wave my research fantasticness'. More to say that we just can't do it all well because there aren't enough hours in the week, and that one of the things that makes it difficult for younger women to be promoted is that we are acculturated to be nice and helpful rather than self-serving. Being nice and helpful is good, and I try to be so in my private and social life, but I'm not sure it's the way to get promoted in out-put driven academia. I try to support junior female colleagues by pointing this out, and by showing them ways of doing the bits of the job that don't get you promoted as fast as possible but no, I'm not going to delay my research by doing crap jobs so other people get more time. In our dept, it's increasingly the case that the people who are picking up all the admin and student welfare stuff are older men who never caught on to the economy of publication, while younger women are getting more protected research time.

Fair enough. As I said, I get where you're coming from.

And you're right that (young) women have generally had to play the role of nice and helpful.

Still, it's fucking sad (and this is not aimed at you, btw, but at "the system") that we end up with a zero-sum type scenario, whereby research aces can throw their weight about and avoid admin. and other poor schmos end up having to slog at it. No-one finds it particularly rewarding, but departments wouldn't function if it wasn't done.

Egede. Sorry, but I think that supporting my students is equally as important in my job as the research element. I could never just not respond to a student's email and I am pleased to say that I have very good feedback for my teaching, and not just from 'the good students'. I am prouder of the fact that a less able student is able to get something out of my teaching and to understand the points I am making and use them in her own work than that some of my brighter students might be able to follow some of my more obtruse statements.

And I AM pretty high achieving actually in my own way. Reader and all that.

Maybe going off the point a bit here but I was wondering given this problem with teaching/admin v research, is it better in your early career to try and focus on getting postdocs/research grants/etc, rather than a lectureship? Especially if you're trying to combine it with babies etc. Or is that not so good in terms of overall career development? Given how competitive everything is, and the fact that I have no publications yet, I may be a little premature with this question, and I guess I'll count myself lucky if I get either after this two year postdoc!

nopubsyet - I think Fennel said earlier up the thread that this had been her strategy, and had allowed her more time with her children. Certainly the work-life balance has GOT to be better if you are "just" trying to balance research and home life rather than throwing teaching and admin into the mix too. And of course most places will be only too glad to let you teach a few courses during your postdoc, so you can easily get experience that way.

In terms of getting a job afterwards, many places seem to be moving towards looking only at research when appointing lecturers. I have heard that in lots of departments, teaching ability or potential is not considered at all. So the fact that you haven't taught loads of units or done your time as Library Officer is unlikely to count against you.

I guess the only advantage of a lectureship (if it is permanent) is that you have a measure of long term security, and don't have to worry about contracts running out etc.

I'd also add that I actually enjoy the mix of research, teaching and admin - for me, academia is not just about research, and I wouldn't want to stay in it if that was the case. I love the teaching/pastoral side, and actually think it's more important in a lot of ways.

But as a career-launching strategy, I do think postdocs and research contracts are great.

flossiemay - sounds like you deserve a huge pat on the back for coping with a small child, pregnancy and your workload. I completely agree that colleagues on short term teaching contracts are treated abominably.

I'm inclined to agree with Libra that pastoral care is a very important part of the job. My students tend to come from quite deprived backgrounds (I teach in a provincial Mexican public university - the rich go private) with lots of problems due to the poor quality of their previous education. It is a very time consuming challenge, but at the same time very satisfying to help these people and be able to help the few very excellent students who appear to go and do postgrads in Mexico City or the US or even the UK.

I also think that you neglect your students at your own peril. My best ideas have come from discussing things with my students. Having to be able to explain thing clearly and concisely has the effect of focusing the mind. Teaching is never a waste of time.

I do not think, however, that administrative work should be part of the job. I really do think that administrators could be better employed doing that. I did not struggle my way through 3 jobs and a PhD to sit in my office ticking boxes fgs. This way we could avoid having to go on courses to be "trained" to do budgets and other such crap. I would kill for a secretary, tbh, it would free up so much of my time.

Oh and I agree with HighonDiesel's (a fellow Suede fan by any chance?) comments to Nopublications. Research is immensely more valued from a CV point of view that a heap of teaching. Plus it has the advantange (unless you work in a lab) of being highly mobile and can very often be done at home !

I definitely agree that the best thing for your career is to do a postdoc before you get a lectureship. That way you are an established researcher with contacts, grant application experience, a sheaf of publications under your belt etc, instead of having to try to develop the research career at the same time as being in the deep end as a new lecturer. My close friend from my PhD got a research fellowship when I got a lectureship and for a while she was a bit frustrated to still be doing research when I was examining PhDs, designing courses etc (and I was earning 10k more than her!) but she whizzed up the ranks once she got her lectureship and is now an SL and working on her 4th book. She is also in a position to negotiate over admin roles because she is now a successful researcher so they want to keep her, eg she only agreed to do a particular job if they let her work at home an extra day a week.

Re the research stars not doing their share of admin, you are all right that it's the people on short-term contracts who suffer. I agree the situation is very unfair. I didn't take Egede's post as waving her publications at us though - I actually found it quite helpful to be reminded that people who appear brilliant are often only that way because they are in fact crap in other areas.

Thanks Catitainahatita and Highondiesel, that's helpful. Got to get to the point where I can change my name I guess, before I get too bothered about where I go following the postdoc! Here's to a day in the library tomorrow whilst DH looks after the baby! At least it's raining ....

Oh, and thanks too Kathyis5incheshigh, cross-posted I think.

I know this is probably going to sound a bit sad, but it's great for me to read this thread as though slightly mature(!) I'm at an early stage in my academic career, and in a perverse way it's good to know that people are struggling a little bit. I think that in RL people often don't want to admit that, so I've always got the impression that everyone's writing and researching and managing fine, and that's made me feel a bit inadequate. So now I feel a little less intimidated by it all ... if that makes sense!

6inches! Not 5! Don't know why I knocked off an inch there!

I know what you mean, I find it oddly reassuring to know that there are others in the same boat. It's nice to know I'm not a freak for finding it hard.

Hmm, nobody is perfect. Sometimes we have issues/problems in different areas. I know some more than high-flying people who are terrified of teaching and that can cause them big stress.

I also think, inevitably, that we the realities of our situations mean that we have to make sacrifices to make ends meet: more research? Or do I finish the report that was due in yesterday (and they always are)? Teach an extra class? Attend all the department's 6pm seminars? Or leave at 5pm on the dot every day? Peer review an article or finish writing my own?

If we have thought about the rules that should govern our choices and apply them vigorous we can more or less get by. In general, in terms of work: I want to a) keep my job; b)have a favourablish review by the SNI. In terms of my family I want to be at the nursery at 5pm every day and be a mum at weekends. I try to achieve this with varying degrees of success. The only thing that helps me is remembering that "no" is an essential part of my vocabulary. I am not superwoman, so why should I try to be?

Xpost with Kathy there. Sorry.

Yes, I was reassured by the title of this thread too, since my low productivity has been a worry of mine for sometime.

Let's hope we can help each other do and feel a wee bit better in future

I'm a bit wary of posting properly, though, academia being such a small world and all.

I don't think I really care if anyone identifies me - I don't generally have bad things to say about my colleagues and I would never dream of doing anything seriously unprofessional like posting about a student on here. However as everyone is so busy and high-achieving I'm sure they have better things to do than stalk me on the internet.
But you are right, it would be easy to identify someone. When dh and I met by internet dating we tracked each other down in about 5 mins because we'd mentioned what we did for a living and the general area we lived in.

Can I ask a question about research mentoring? Is there anyone else who has found that while at best it is fabulous, sometimes it can do more harm than good? In theory it would always be positive but in practice senior academics are only human and can make unrealistic or negative comments about your work - I also found that the constant need to justify what I was working on in terms of RAE outputs could be really inhibiting.

A late-comer to the CAWK thread, but hope you have room for one more!

I currently have a fixed term postdoc position, working 0.6, so at least I don't have to deal with balancing teaching and research, but I'm finding it difficult to get motivated and actually get writing. I have one major piece of work that I'm procrastinating on and then - nothing.

I came back from maternity leave a year ago, but haven't managed to start anything new, so if I don't sort myself out soon I'm looking at a publication gap for 2009. While I wouldn't necessarily be expected in my field to publish whilst on maternity leave, it's a fairly male-dominated area, so I'm not sure how much sympathy there will be for the time it takes adjusting to work post-baby. And I'm going to be needing another job next year when my funding runs out...

Welcome Skiffler.

FouFoucault - hope your birthday party went ok. Ours was fine & more exhausting than we could ever have imagined!

Kathy--Research Mentoring

Her: Hmm, it has take you rather a long time to finish this book (seven years).

Me: Yes, rather slowed down by small children and various other slings and arrows (but really thinking, oh, fuck off, you've never actually published a monograph yourself and you are about to retire so what do you know).

Her: If you could work a bit faster, and attend some conferences that would look good.

Me: Rightio!

see, now I WANT to apply for a postdoc, but have already got the clear impression I don't have enough publications to do so.

I had actually started thinking maybe I should just go for a teaching-only, just to have a damn salary. After all the years of postgrad study and associate-tutoring I am thoroughly over working for free. It's that that has made me seriously consider chucking it all in, so many times.

(and yet, and yet -- it's like gambling: that tantalising suggestion that if I do publish, I might get the job!)