Is anyone else an academic who has not produced enough research while having kids and is now in the s***?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There are lots of academics on MN, just wondering if there is anyone else in my position.

Am pg with 3rd dc in 5 years. Have had hyperemesis and other problems in all 3 pgs, which on top of 2 maternity leaves means heaps of time off work. In the meantime I have completely lost research momentum and produced sod all apart from a few book reviews. I was not submitted for RAE (though fortunately my dept did very well without me so none of my colleagues are holding it against me personally.)
Every time I come back it takes me all my time to get back up to speed with teaching and admin, get on top of all the changes in my field etc, and I only ever seem to make baby steps towards producing anything before I am sick or pregnant again.
Just had uncomfortable meeting with (supportive) HoD at which she broke news to me that I am about to get a scary letter from Personnel and a process is going to start which will probably include ritual disembowelling/change to a teaching only contract if I don't get something submitted before baby is due. Which would be fine as long as the foetus behaves and sickness holds off - am only just back at work after 2 months off with HG.

Serves me right for having children, doesn't it?

sorry to hear you're in such a bind Unproductive (though from the sounds of things you really need to change that ) - agree with Kathy. Unless your boss actually has horns he is likely to respond well to a clear plan, especially because you've got the results there to talk about. Good luck.

actually can I just have a quick grumble?

my alma mater has 3 fellowships to help women get back into their careers after family stuff (3! ) - and I've got this great project idea that desperately wants doing for 2012 (tying in with an anniversary). they've even made two of the fellowships p/t, which would suit me down to the ground

But. I've never done anything remotely like write a fellowship application before, the application wants to know things like my most significant contribution to the field (erm, one article 3 years ago ), and there is still the wee issue of not having any time or brainspace to get an application together. realistically it's not something I stand a chance of getting, even if I could pull it off in 3 weeks of evenings-only

this does not, however, stop me wanting it, dammit.

Oh PhDLife.
I want to say DO IT.
There is always an answer to those questions on forms that look unanswerable for you at first.
For instance, could you pick up on the best thing in your PhD as your most significant achievement? There is always the chance they will be more open-minded in assessing this than they would for a typical application. What are the other hard questions?

However, I know that the way things have been for your recently, you really have had no time in which to work, and obviously if there is no time, there is no time.

You are really owed some time after holding the fort so much while your dp has been out of action - is there any chance he can take on some extra childcare duties at the weekend so you can at least have a bash?

Thanks for your Yay UnPRODUCTIVEpostdoc! And really good luck with your dilemma.

PhdLife - I second what Kathy says, I really sympathise/empathise with regard to finding the time, but I think if you can find a way it would be really great to give it a go. I faced difficult questions like that in getting my current job. I took the 'pretending to be confident' approach to the application form (not pretending as in entirely making things up obviously)!

How long is the form? I begged my DH to take care of DD for a few Saturdays, and we had ready meals every night for a few weeks and the house was DISGUSTING by the time I completed the form! But it was worth it, and just one other thing too, the first time I saw this postdoc was a year earlier and I didn't apply as I was convinced I wouldn't qualify. In the intervening year, I did nothing at all to add to my CV, and was a year futher away from my Phd, but decided to give it a go anyway - and got it, having been turned down for what I thought were less competitive equivalents. So I really think it's worth a go if you can!

PhdLife, you should definitely go for it if you can find the time to put it together. Competition for fellowships can be tough, but you only stand a chance if you actually put in an application. And if you have a great idea, that may be the edge you need over people who have more papers.

Having applied for a fellowship myself recently, I would say you need to allow as much time as possible, and use everyone you know to look over it and comment. See if your grants application department have some successful applications to look over (fellowships are similar to other grants, althoug there tends to be more emphasis on personal development). Contact the funding people directly with any questions you have. And if you know any obvious people in your field who might be asked to review your application, MAKE SURE YOU REFERENCE THEIR WORK!!

Even if you don't get it, it's a really worthwhile experience - it forces you to focus your ideas, and think about what you want to do and how, it makes you much better at the process next time round, and I think it enhances your CV - not as much as getting one, of course, but as a demonstration that you're serious about applying for funding for your work (rather than just talking about it) and that you're aware of the process and the requirements.

If you really don't have the time at the moment, then I sympathise, but don't just write it off as a passing whim - it could have longer term benefits. Even if you don't make this deadline, you could write up your proposal anyway, and keep an eye out for other funding calls it might fit into.

Of course, I'm never one to take my own advice - I have an idea sitting around that keep meaning to write up properly as a proposal but haven't got round to yet...

Just to add to skiffler's points which I think were really important (the one re: referencing especially) the other advice I was given was to focus on the methodology and timetable (I have a bad tendency to get bored by these bits) and make it as realistic and detailed as possible because the do-ability is really central and good applications can get rejected if they don't seem do-able.

Thanks Kathy. I'm trying to come up with a schedule to get at least one of the papers out before September. I suspect you may be right about someone higher up the food chain putting the pressure on him though. I'm a bit wary of going to see him right now though as I'm scared I'll break down in tears and come across as a complete girly mess Must pull myself together first and then talk to him again.

I did actually manage to get a fair amount done today so at least that feels a bit more positive!

aw, you're all so encouraging! I just think I'm starting from way too far behind the 8-ball iykwim - I wouldn't even know who might be a referee, who has written in this (newish for me) area, and atm I don't have access to a university library. even if I had time to go. and dh still not 100%.

but I do thank you for the encouragement.

Will they be offering them again next year, or maybe in two years? It's great that things like this are becoming more widespread - a v good sign.

Just realised I must have not refreshed the thread when I posted my reply last night - thanks everyone else for the encouragement too!

phdlife - if there's any way you could get a proposal together I'd go for it. Otherwise, I agree with skiffler it would be good to start getting a proposal together anyway in case they come round again, or for another fellowship. I need to do this too, but at the moment I'm short of a Big Idea but as you have one it would definitely be good to try and make something of it.

I would sell you my Big Idea, uPP, but I loooove it . Have just spent last two hours googling and printing. Am terrified of application but have kinda decided to give it a whirl. Hope y'all are prepared to answer lots of dumb questions!

Yay PhDLife, good for you.
I'm happy to answer dumb questions. I will, in fact, only be any good on the dumb ones, as I've never successfully applied for a postdoc or assessed an application for one. But I am happy to be a general 'person from another subject reading a draft' if you'd like to CAT me for my email.
Good luck

I may well take you up on that when I get round to the proposal bit, Kathy. I'm saving it for last as it is quite clear in my head and I'm busy being boggled over idiot things like finding Field of Research codes and ranking the relevant areas, rounded to the nearest 10 percent .

I don't think I can do this. my head is just too fried and dh is still struggling after his various misadventures. it's not a time to be adding to the stress in our house

Poor phdlife - how frustrating for you.

Might a partial solution be to agree with your DH that you will both set aside time for you to work on your proposal when things improve? That way, you'll be good to go when the next postdoc deadline comes up.

It's also really good to have fleshed out ideas for future research when it comes to job applications. This is one of the main things we look at now, alongside research record to date.

I do feel for you - hope things settle down on the domestic front soon.

Take a few days away from it and then see how you feel?
Any work you have done on it already will be money in the bank for the next application, anyway.

the proposal's due in 21 days and I'm literally only getting an hour or two a day, at the end of the day. And at the rate he's going I just can't see dh getting better enough to help in that way.

or maybe I've just got bloody-tired blue glasses on tonight. might just go to bed, see if it's any better tomorrow.

while I'm gone perhaps you lot could help with this doozy question: they want me to describe the intellectual environment of my host dept. I'm just wondering how I'm supposed to do that when I've not been there...? [thick]

In flattering terms?!
Find out who else works there, what their research is, what kind of research community activities (seminars etc) take place. Then write a thing which ties it to the research you want to do and suggests (subtly or explicitly depending on how the question is phrased) that you will both benefit from and contribute to said research environment.

If you can email someone there to get more info then it will be easier but if you can't just base it on publicly available information.

But seriously, go to bed and see how it looks when you're a bit less tired.

Very good advice from Kathy there on both counts!

I think the intellectual environment is largely about showing how you will be a good fit, that there will be people there you can talk to, and that you will also be making an intellectual contribution.

Have a good sleep - I am sure you could get the proposal done in 21 x 1 hour sessions, but I know how hard it is when you are shattered.

um ok (yes I know I said I was going to bed but actually i'm in quite a good headspace for savagely cutting the 1000 excess words from soon-to-be-submitted article)

hm, what makes one a 'good fit'? proposed project is so abstract esoteric wacky interdisciplinary it's hard to find 'like minds', though ppl always tend to be amused interested. (at least I can tick the 'original research' box with no qualms).

You can often find some similarities somewhere even if your research is off-the-wall - could be in methodology, geographical area, theories namechecked used....

I must say I think an interdisciplinary project that amuses interests people is probably quite a good bet for a postdoc that is competitive across a range of fields - will grab their attention at least!

Perhaps also in terms of 'intellectual environment' you could emphasise how forward-thinking/innovative/interdisciplinary your host department is - and thus how well your project will complement what is already going on.

Highly interdisciplinary sounds good. Could you talk about appropriate people/work etc in other departments as well? I know you said the host department, but part of that might include good links with Other-Highly-Relevant-Department as well.

Don't overstretch yourself, though - up at midnight working on your proposal and an article?!

only 10pm skiffler

and am not actually working on proposal yet, just getting my head round it. thanks for advice, that all helps. dsis offered to mind dc's for me for a few hours (hurrah) but dh still v poorly.

Hello everybody! I have another question and wondered if anyone had any thoughts? I'm getting in a right flap about this! OK, so quickly, I start my new post soon and have to confirm the exact start date. Without going in to boring detail as to why, I am missing one day a week childcare for the first couple of months. My DH can take the odd day off work and my Mum might be able to help but it's going to be a bit tricky. My new mentor has told me already that she is not terribly interested in childcare issues but that she won't be clocking me in and out (ie I think she means, don't tell and I won't ask!). I was wondering though whether a) to just go ahead with my initial start date and wing it a little bit (bearing in mind that I set my own research agenda and have no teaching or other set commitments), or b) to perhaps explain the issue and ask to start a month later? Or c) to take that day off as holiday each week for the first two months. I am really nervous about presenting them with a childcare issue before I even start, how unprofessional! What would you guys do?

PhdLife - I had a similar thing with my application, which was also interdisciplinary. I waffled on wrote about how it would be mutually beneficial to both me and the department as I would bring new ideas etc etc and also learn from them. Can't remember if this is a brand new scheme or not, but just wondered whether you had seen any applications made by previous applicants or looked at other applications to similar schemes/jobs? I found it incredibly useful to look at other postdoc type applications, and was really fortunate as my proposed mentor and previous supervisor got hold of some of these for me. I had limited time too and looking at other applications gave me some good ideas about how to phrase certain sections, especially as I was a bit of a novice at the whole thing.