Is anyone else an academic who has not produced enough research while having kids and is now in the s***?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There are lots of academics on MN, just wondering if there is anyone else in my position.

Am pg with 3rd dc in 5 years. Have had hyperemesis and other problems in all 3 pgs, which on top of 2 maternity leaves means heaps of time off work. In the meantime I have completely lost research momentum and produced sod all apart from a few book reviews. I was not submitted for RAE (though fortunately my dept did very well without me so none of my colleagues are holding it against me personally.)
Every time I come back it takes me all my time to get back up to speed with teaching and admin, get on top of all the changes in my field etc, and I only ever seem to make baby steps towards producing anything before I am sick or pregnant again.
Just had uncomfortable meeting with (supportive) HoD at which she broke news to me that I am about to get a scary letter from Personnel and a process is going to start which will probably include ritual disembowelling/change to a teaching only contract if I don't get something submitted before baby is due. Which would be fine as long as the foetus behaves and sickness holds off - am only just back at work after 2 months off with HG.

Serves me right for having children, doesn't it?

Hiya Lupus

Well done everyone who's submitted articles in the last few weeks. I've been on holiday (camping, so no MN!)

Lupus - all I can think of re appraisals is using it as a way to make your manager aware of how much you're doing that s/he might not have been aware of!
I'm a bit rubbish about using these things strategically, though.
At our place it was also all about 'identifying training needs' if you have any of those.... Hopefully someone else will come along with something more useful.

kathy, and thanks. Yes, must point out ALL my strengths.

What about raising some of these issues at appraisal (supporting academics with families etc) - is it career-suicide?

And, um, "I would like my training needs for Being Unable to Say No, Feeling Like a Perpetual Failure/Fake Despite Doing Actually Quite a Lot, and Having a Very Messy Desk addressed please". Haven't seen those ones on the Staff Development website yet...

Have also had row today with co-author, even more perfectionist than I, who is cross I sent piece off without his final edits comments. I am PI and first author. He has trashed seen about 10 versions. His critique is wearing and actually now undermines my productivity since I doubt my own voice. I have told him this, when he asked me to withdraw the paper again . I told him no. Jesus. Let's hope it doesn't get rejected with no comments...

Lupus
I can tell you what not to do in your appraisal!
I used it to raise the issue of how much admin/ managerial/ committee type stuff I was doing - and got asked whether I didn't see those things as part of my role etc etc -which I do of course, but felt like I just had too many of them. And now I think I am in danger of being seen as 'not a good citizen'.
I would say focus on the positive - what you have done (rather than what you haven't and why) and what plans you have to do more of the same of the good stuff - but realistic and achievable - but I suppose that's obvious. In mine there was an opportunity to say what would facilitate doing those things - e.g. I talked about communication issues.
Re co-authors - there seems to be 2 extremes - ones like you've got and the ones who think sneezing on the manuscript is enough to justify authorship. Sounds as though you've done enough - fingers crossed for good reviews.

I think it also depends on who is doing the appraisal. There are managers who really do want to know what your needs are, and how they could help you.

But there are also managers like my current one, who just want you to big yourself up and say how marvellous you are, and how much you are contributing to your fantastic department. Any criticism or suggestions, however constructive, are a total no-no.

It's also worth thinking about who the document will be read by. Ours are signed off by the Head of School, who is also totally allergic to anything that could be construed by a paranoid megalomaniac as negative.

rofl at sneezing on the MS. I think this guy would rather sit behind me holding my finger while I type. Instead, being the Very Busy and Senior Person he is, he just berates me and unpicks everything I say.

Thing is, FF, we have too much inside info here don't we? You probably know my co-author, if only by reputation, reasonably well .

And you know who is sitting in on my appraisal rather well? Heh heh heh.

Lupus
I'm not sure I do know who your co-author is? Do they work at another institution but used to be here?
But you're right - I do know the person who is sitting in on your appraisal and I did have that in mind when I replied!
I think the new forms/ system are not v helpful - not that the old ones were much either. I suppose it depends on whether the person doing it sees it as a box to be ticked or genuinely wants to help people's careers.

Lupus
I'm not sure I do know who your co-author is? Do they work at another institution but used to be here?
But you're right - I do know the person who is sitting in on your appraisal and I did have that in mind when I replied!
I think the new forms/ system are not v helpful - not that the old ones were much either. I suppose it depends on whether the person doing it sees it as a box to be ticked or genuinely wants to help people's careers.

Hello everyone! I have just submitted my first ever article! I have absolutely no expectation that it will be accepted but am quite excited that I've even got to this stage, which a few weeks ago felt like it would never happen. It's a bit difficult as I'm between institutions at the moment, and feel guilty calling on my ex-supervisor or my new mentor too much (they've already been helpful) and I've just had to let it go as I couldn't think what else to do with it now, even though I'm not sure that it's very good. I'm just praying that the criticisms will be constructive and I won't feel like throwing it all in when I get them! Now ... I guess I should get started on the next one!

Nopubsyet
Well done - hope you get some constructive reviews. (Or even just a straight acceptance!)

Thanks Foucault! Hope you're getting on OK with your conclusion. I thought I'd get straight on to my next article but had to change the word length (I misinterpreted something about tables)!

Does anyone have a vague idea of how long it takes on average to get comments back? Or is that a how-long-is-a-piece-of-string-type question? If it helps it's a sociological-y type of journal!

Woo hoo NoPubsYet! Well done!
We can hold hands now while waiting for replies.
I opened my email with fear and trepidation when I got back from hols in case my paper had been rejected, but nothing yet. Will cross fingers for you for lovely referee reports.
Can't wait for you to change your name to 'Firstpublicationforthcoming', 'Firstpublicationinpress' etc!

Thanks very much Kathy! There's a straight 'rejected' category!? Oh God, does that mean they take one look at it and say no way, ever? That would be, ummmm, somewhat demoralising!

I feel a bit like I did after my finals. For YEARS after that I had these anxiety dreams where they told me the result I'd been given had been a big administrative mix-up. Maybe I'll start having something similar re: publications. Goodness, I don't know why I do this to myself, except I do really, because it would be so brilliant to see something published!

The journal I sent mine to has a straight reject category for if it doesn't fit the type of thing they publish.
Because I work in an interdisciplinary field it is not always obvious whether or not a journal is right for me. If they do reject it straight off, it is likely to be a judgement about the area rather than the quality, but it would still be annoying and mean I would have to do it all over again for another one!

Ah, I see, really good luck with that!

Re: time for comments - you can always email the editorial assistant/publisher and ask. And some journals commit to a turnaround time (on their website?)

But I would say, these days, 3 months to a final decision is very good, 6 months is normal and longer is going to naff me off. But it all depends on whether they've a good bank of timely reviewers and how long they take...

It really depends on your subject, and on teh journal. 6 months or more is normal in the social sciences, unfortunately, I had to wait 15 months once for any reviewer comments.

But recently I've been writing with health people aiming at the top medical journals, and there's a much quicker turnaround time and a much higher rejection rate. 4 days from submission to rejection for the BMJ , not even time to relax a bit after submitting a paper. But the BMJ only accepts 4% of submissions so clearly that's not like most journals, luckily.

OK, I'll assume around six months but will check on the website too. That seems ages but I guess time will fly while I try and churn another one out.

When it comes to looking for jobs following a Phd, how many papers looks OK from a Phd? I'm going to aim for three, if I can.

I feel like I'm constantly picking people's brains on here, and I'm not much use in return at the moment! I hope you all don't feel used - and thanks!!

No pubs -
it depends what kind of job and what level.
e.g. if you are going for a research associate (which could be a route to a lectureship) then 1-3 papers in 'good' journals would be great. This is in health/ social science.
I find health journals to have a faster response rate compared to social science ones - perhaps because the papers are shorter? I know that the time given to reviewers seems v short.

The journal I've submitted to tries to do 3 months, but it's quite a professional operation in a lot of ways.
DH's maths and physics journals seem really quick - they turn stuff round within a few weeks.

Now tell me to get the f* off MN and get on with my second paper!

at you camping, Kathy - where did you go? [wistful/vague Uk 'homesickness']

and at you submitting so far ahead of timetable, NoPubs . Am deeply mired in domestic [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/791597-It-39-s-no-one-39-s-fault-I-39 chiggy] atm and just don't have the brainspace to write. (Do, however, have the brainspace to worry about it at 4am, though )

Lake District. We know a v quiet & basic site near Ambleside.
Was nice but rainy

we camped once right on shore of Buttermere. As you say, quiet and basic. Quite the nicest camping we ever did though.

oops, just noticed my stupid link didn't work. the chiggy is here

Have posted on your other thread PhDLife.
Buttermere is lovely too!

Yay NoPubs! Congratulations for submitting - I hope you get some good news soon.

PhDlife - sorry things are so tough at the moment, hope it improves soon.

I'm in a bit of a pickle (this is a long one, sorry). I posted much further up the thread (beginning of June) about how I hadn't published anything between start of my contract and going on maternity leave a year ago.

I jobshare with DH (I don't want to post too many details here because I suspect my and DH's working arrangements are possibly unique in our field) and he was working f/t during my 9 month mat leave. I have now been back from mat leave several months and we have a huge quantity of results but need to get them written up. I've been trying hard to get the results organised and writing is underway but it's going to be at least a month before we can submit anything. We have enough results already for at least 3 papers and another 3 are planned.

Anyway, Boss is now making noises that we haven't been productive enough - in fact he's told us that he has money to renew our contracts but he hasn't decided if he wants to or not. I'm really upset about this as we both thought he was sympathetic to our situation (last few years have been fairly nightmarish, miscarriages, bereavement, complicated pregnancy, premature birth) which has had a huge effect on our productivity, but he's never said anything before about being this unhappy about the way things are going. I'm terrified now that he's not going to renew our contracts and we're going to be left unemployed with bad references. I've spoken to a few of our colleagues who suspect he just doesn't realise how much stress this is causing us and of course he's going to renew us if he has the money, but that's not stopping me feeling really sick about it all .

Anyone faced anything similar or got any advice? Obviously our main priority is to get these results published, but having this hanging over us isn't helping at all (wish I could post more details but really don't want to be identifiable to anyone randomly googling!).

OK well in some ways that's similar to my situation, in that I hadn't been publishing but there were some reasons.

What helped me was talking it through with the HoD who was the one who had to put on the pressure, and understanding that this was happening NOT because she personally wanted to get rid of me but because of pressure from above. The fact that your colleagues think he really wants to renew you and doesn't realise about the stress suggests it may be similar in his case as well - could it be that he is having to demonstrate to his managers what he is doing to make sure everyone produces as much as possible?

The other parallel with my situation is that your are NOT unproductive and DEFINITELY not incapable - in fact you have produced a lot of results, it just hasn't got to the publishing stage yet.
I think there are things you can do to convince him that you are in fact a very good bet and he would be crazy to let you go when you have done all this work and it is just a matter of capitalising on it.
Can you take control of your own deadlines and produce a schedule which will put a bit of pressure on yourselves but is still manageable, which will show how you are going to submit not just one but three papers within the coming months (with 3 more to follow)? If you give him a fairly firm commitment to submitting the first paper in (say) 5 weeks time, that will get him off your back while you get on with it - though you can send him a progress report in a couple of weeks to reassure him.
Good luck.