Is anyone else an academic who has not produced enough research while having kids and is now in the s***?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There are lots of academics on MN, just wondering if there is anyone else in my position.

Am pg with 3rd dc in 5 years. Have had hyperemesis and other problems in all 3 pgs, which on top of 2 maternity leaves means heaps of time off work. In the meantime I have completely lost research momentum and produced sod all apart from a few book reviews. I was not submitted for RAE (though fortunately my dept did very well without me so none of my colleagues are holding it against me personally.)
Every time I come back it takes me all my time to get back up to speed with teaching and admin, get on top of all the changes in my field etc, and I only ever seem to make baby steps towards producing anything before I am sick or pregnant again.
Just had uncomfortable meeting with (supportive) HoD at which she broke news to me that I am about to get a scary letter from Personnel and a process is going to start which will probably include ritual disembowelling/change to a teaching only contract if I don't get something submitted before baby is due. Which would be fine as long as the foetus behaves and sickness holds off - am only just back at work after 2 months off with HG.

Serves me right for having children, doesn't it?

Thanks for your thoughts - I'll cast my net a little and see what happens.

I'll also try and approach a few unaffiliated participants at the next conference and see if they will share their experiences... It would be interesting to know how others negotiate the issue, although I suspect most are further down the line...

Thanks again - and apologies for small hijack.

Nutsinmay can you do it somewhere that does part time/distance learning? Our dept does, and we have quite a few students who have moved continents in the middle of it.

Just wanted to report that I have submitted the article and written the grant application as per the deadline mentioned in my OP so I am now not going to be disembowelled
Thank you to everyone for the advice and support over a tough few weeks. It's been fab to have so much understanding and to know that I'm not alone. The book Dustbuster linked was particularly helpful.
What amazed me was how easy and quick it was to actually do the work once I had got rid of the dithering and procrastination.

I decided I had to be v ruthless about taking time off sick so I could rest enough to make sure I actually could produce something on the days I had scheduled as research days, so I deliberately missed a departmental meeting last week and have reached hitherto unattained levels of ruthlessness with students (eg one showed up half an hour early for a meeting yesterday so I sent him away again )

Nutsinmay - hijack away and don't apologise; this is very definitely a general academics with kids support thread rather than a specific one!

(And just on the subject of general CAWKy things, I went to a presentation today on European research funding and the consensus among the people there who had done it was that you very much have to be prepared to work through weekends etc to turn this particular grant around.... There was a lot of macho stuff about how much midnight oil had to be burned! Now I'm wishing I had put the cat among the pigeons by saying 'Obviously for those of us with young families there's no possibility whatever of us doing that; are you saying we shouldn't apply for this type of funding then?')

Thanks for acceptance - albeit I'm more of a WAWK (wannabe) than a CAWK currently...

I hadn't really considered the pt/ distance option tbh, as I had assumed it would be easier to 'find a home' once my personal circs were (more) settled.

Obviously in theory, all applications are judged on research merits and credentials of applicant, but I had anticipated that slightly odd and not necessarily practical circumstances (at the point of application) might ultimately count against me... but maybe it is worth touting my wares a little and seeing what the reaction is.

• and I'd like to thank you all for illuminating all the issues I can look forward to if I ever get this fledging ambition off the ground - although thankfully my child-bearing (if not child-rearing) days are done... unless I trade dh in for a new model, of course, but that would be a very different thread.

Well done Kathy!

I'm dithering over ordering that book too, I've bought so many books recently, all around the £20 mark

Nuts, I'll second others who say you really don't need to be local for PhD supervisions etc., as long as you have a reasonably supportive supervisor who's happy to keep in touch by e-mail. Friends of mine who lived in their university town sometimes very very rarely met their supervisors, though this does vary hugely depending on the supervisor's 'style' I guess (and on how much input/guidance you feel you need).

Well done and congratulations, Kathy! That is great going, especially considering the pressure you were under, and the awful hyperemesis. You shall act as an inspiration to us all. I hope you will be able to enjoy the summer and your pregnancy now (sickness permitting).

I'm glad you found the book useful, btw (tis DB here).

"What amazed me was how easy and quick it was to actually do the work once I had got rid of the dithering and procrastination."
Wise words indeed - I'll try to remember them as I attempt to finish my book over the summer.

Nutsinmay - I add my voice to those suggesting that you might consider doing something p/t or distance learning. In a way, the sooner you start the PhD, the better. If you are moving to the States (big assumption here, but you mentioned a transatlantic move) it might also be worth thinking about how long PhDs there can take - 7-8 years in my field. So there might be an argument for getting started on a quicker British PhD.

Obviously you will know what's right for you, but it might be worth a bit of though.

So which of you was it that met me (again after a long time) yesterday and asked me lots of questions in a very Mumsnetty way, huh? I was wearing my MN uniform so pretty identifiable I imagine.

I won't tell if you don't.

And bloody well done Kathy. You are an inspiration. I am now OVER most of my shitty adminy, marking type deadlines, and it is STILL not the end of June. Phew. So have a week or so to finish paper.

If only I didn't have a meeting with the

VC in an hour. To discuss research interests which are mutual to some extent.

Well done Kathy, that's terrific.

I might go an order that book, but like I'm like norkmaiden, Amazon might be my undoing!

Am finally looking at my pile of research papers and books now that marking is done. Have not actually opened anything yet, though.

Lupus - is there an academic Mumsnet uniform? Something that makes you look intelligent, glamorous, stylish in an individual way, quirky but not bonkers, but all the time looking as if you haven't actually tried and don't really care. I suspect this is as elusive as the perfect school-run dress or the perfect raincoat.

I am also trying to finish a paper - at home - the sun is shining and I don't want to be inside. It is so nearly there but I can't seem to just get the final push to get it submittable. Well done to those of you who have managed it.

MagicMountain - yes I recognise that long sigh now to the real work feeling.

I fear, though, day or so of tidying my desk and sorting pencils and faffing about is in order. Somehow I always have to do this at this point in the year; and I've stopped beating myself up about it and started realising I need to build in a couple of days off and a couple of 'reorganising'. Kind of clearing cobwebs etc..

By the end of the week I will have run out of ideas for displacement activity but,

on the plus side, my house will be sparkling.

Well done, Kathy, showing us all that it can be done!

I'm planning on getting my paper written to a reasonable draft to pass to colleagues by the end of the month - now just need to put it into action!

PC - no, you are absolutely right. I had assumed that I would be able to negotiate (and fork out for) continued access, but haven't really looked into costs etc. I've ended up subscribing myself to a few crucial journals etc, but wider online access would be a necessity. Data-wise I would be fine, but contextually I'd be blowing in the wind...

DB - My investigations into applying for international study (notwithstanding the difficulty with fees/ funding) were frankly terrifying. If at all possible I intend to retain UK links. However, having looked at likely institutions, their PhD students automatically get an 'in' to teaching locally as part of their research agreement, a bonus I wouldn't be able to access with distance learning...

I think you have all convinced me that I need to get an application together for next year. It's not a perfect solution, but probably the most sensible one!

You might well find that you could pick up some teaching locally. I know that we have used people who are doing PhDs elsewhere. So that could be a possibility....

ooh, ooh, I got email back from my prof who read my article (ya gotta love it when they respond in 4 days!) who says it's good but needs an extra, more introductory paragraph to explain why readers should be interested in the topic. This question always stumps me. Although I am utterly fascinated with my quirky little subject I've never yet come up with a good reason why anyone else should be. Perhaps if I can find my braincell...

PhDLife have you tried thinking about who else it might be interesting to and used that as a stepping stone to working out why people should be interested (ie 'just me and a few sausage historians would be interested in this' which you can turn round to 'this is also important to the history of sausages because....')

Was feeling really happy about submitting my paper and then the very next day we had the shittest ever research awayday - a former HoD who was meant to be organising a session on 'research mapping' decided it would be interesting to make a big chart with everybody's names down each axis and we could fill in who we could see ourselves collaborating with according to a traffic light system of green=want to collaborate with this person, orange=might possibly, etc. This was meant to all be terribly neutral and not personal at all but naturally because we are human beings not robots this left those of us whose column ended up all red feeling like the most unpopular girls in the class. My friend said afterwards there were several people she wanted to put as green but because they had already given her a red she didn't dare. Am staggered by the stupidity and insensitivity of former HoD in thinking this was a good idea!

It was a terrible idea, wasn't it? My friend and I wondered if it was just us but then even if it was that's not really the point!

The awayday was a bit like being battered over the head repeatedly - first we had a research committee where one of the items is everyone going round the room listing their individual achievements since the last committee, then we had a session where we all had to list our projected REF outputs and say how many of them we had done, and then finally the collaboration session just in case we weren't feeling shit enough already by that stage!
I like (almost!) all my colleagues and am genuinely pleased to cheer the brilliant things they've done, and I quite understand that managers need detailed info on all our research activity for the REF to help them plan overall strategy, but the constant requirement to publicly humiliate yourself is not helpful.